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Poll: Nearly half of California voters say they can't afford living in the state

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by flgator2, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    This happens in any city of reasonable size. Homeless people move to cities because that's where the services are, that's where the people (who they cask for change are), and that's also where the most jobs are.

    It's a funny thing that every time I see some homeless person arrested in the newspaper, it turns out they're not from here. Sometimes they're from near Seattle, but much of the time they're from different states entirely, sometimes from across the country. If cities would crack down on homeless people, all these small towns the homeless left for the "big city" would find just how many homegrown homeless people they actually have.

    So to every small town that sent a homeless person to my city, directly or indirectly - you're welcome. We'll take care of yours the best we can, but I wish you'd take care of them yourselves.
     
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  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Apr 19, 2007
    Geo-hell
    That was sort of the interesting thing about Gainesville, a lot of the street people you encountered you saw a on a regular basis, and they had pretty regular haunts, so you'd see them every time you went to your favorite bar and it was always like the first time they had ever asked you for change.
     
  3. Claygator

    Claygator GC Hall of Fame

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    Hardly the only reason. Obviously, California has done a really poor job of land use/urban planning designed to increase the availability of affordable housing. The Florida Keys have a similar problem.
     
  4. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    No, but it is the biggest driver. Even if big metro areas such as LA, SF, SJ and SD and the coastal areas changed their zoning laws and built at a higher pace, it's not as if housing would come down anywhere close to what would be considered reasonable, especially not for home purchases (as opposed to rental). Also, many parts of CA near these cities, homes can't reasonably be built due to land and environmental issue. And with LA, many aren't fond of the idea of moving to more reasonable locales such as Riverside and San Bernardino counties because if they still have to work in LA, where the commute is the worst in the world.
     
  5. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The issue in both cases is that the places that people want to live are often time on water. The Keys are surrounded by it. San Francisco has water on three sides. LA has it restricting growth one way (with a far less attractive desert the other direction). San Francisco could allow development so that they would look like Midtown Manhattan, but there is a concern that people wouldn't want to live there when the environment of the city changes.
     
  6. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    Not to mention, people really need to check out CA's topography where all the major cities situate. All near the coasts where it's mountainous, making it so these cities can't so easily expand horizontally...for good reasons. Plus, Californians, like the rest of America is sold on the American Dream of home-ownership and these cities have what would be far more homes and far fewer high rise rental apartments or even condos than one might expect, say if compared to urban centers in countries like Japan.
     
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  7. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist Premium Member

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    That dude looks like Dr John.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    You still don't ask $1 million for a house if there's no one willing to pay more than $300,000. Not if you expect to sell it.
     
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  9. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    I've heard LA described as a city without a center before. Part of that is when the city boomed. 1950's through the 1960's, when the automobile became cheap, suburbs began springing up overnight, and yes, the American dream was 2 cars and a white picket fence. My siblings in-laws bought a 1,800, single story, 3b 2 ba home in 1962 in Malibu, about 15 minutes North of the Santa Monica Pier for about $62,000. Expensive for the time, but that house is worth about 15X that today.

    Other reasons California cities are built out instead of up include the land limitations. Water on one side, desert or farmland on the others. With a lot of high mountains all around. Not to mention, the threat of earthquake. Necessary but strict building codes have been put in place over the last 100+ years after the San Francisco quake and fire. Good thing too, because while there have been deaths and destruction every major quake, comparatively, it could have been a lot worse.

    In the end, housing prices are subject to the same supply and demand law as any commodity. And CA has a lot of people who want to live there, and limited housing options, which isn't likely going to change any time soon.
     
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  10. docspor

    docspor GC Legend

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    WOW. he does. I thought he looked like Roky Erickson in that that photo. Which reminds me of one of the most obscure pieces of trivia I know. The John Larroquette show wanted an episode where the a character claims to have seen the notoriously reclusive author Thomas Pynchon wearing a Mink Deville shirt. They sent TP's manager the script & they requested that it be a Roky Erickson shirt. Roky:

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. homer

    homer GC Legend

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    When I lived in Hogtown I, my wife, and friends would meet every Friday afternoon for drinks and such at Harry’s, or occasionally Lillian’s.

    There was this tall homeless guy that carried stuff around in a white plastic bag. He hit everyone up for a quarter. Always a quarter.

    After we parked one Friday and were walking towards Harry’s, I saw him headed towards us. Just as he arrived and started to ask for money, I asked him first, if I could borrow a quarter. He looked at me with this blank stare, frozen. I waited for a response but he just stood there staring at me. When I realized I had confused him, I said never mind and handed him a quarter. As we walked away I looked back and he was still standing there but now staring at the quarter in his hand. I felt bad about his reaction and never ask him that question again. The next week as we are walking towards Harry’s he calmly walks up to me and asks for a quarter. He was back to his normal self. From that time on I made sure I had a quarter for him when I went down town to Harrys.
     
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  12. obgator

    obgator Junior

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    All valid points, cities like SF have been fully built out with very little available space for new construction. The only possibility is vertical expansion but is constrained by the risk of earthquakes unless significant foundation modifications are done to meet current seismic codes.

    Tear downs and building high rises have another constraint - inventory is usually very low and owners (specially older folks) usually don’t want to sell. Why? 1978 California proposition 13 (1978 California Proposition 13 - Wikipedia) fixes property taxes at 1976 values unless the property is sold. Talk about people revolting against taxes having unintended consequences downstream! So I pay around 10 times the property tax as my neighbor who has had his home since the 1960s.

    To me this is the biggest gripe I have living in the Bay Area. But I would not move anywhere else.
     
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  13. docspor

    docspor GC Legend

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    There is a long time band in the town I live in called 12 cents for Marvin. Named after a homeless guy who calculated that if everyone who passed gave him 12 cents he'd be set. Their bass player is a mathematician, so maybe she knows the math behind it.

     
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  14. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    I knew a builder in the '80's who was in Livermore, CA east of Oakland. He told me that the land costs due to scarcity + engineering costs + site preparation were astronomical because of the terrain, soil conditions and that pesky San Andreas fault. Turns what in Orlando would be a $70k 2 BR 2BA 1100 SF townhome into $450k in SF. Now, that was a builder talking so consider in the hype factor and maybe it's only $350k, but still...
     
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  15. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist Premium Member

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    Awesome.
     
  16. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    All spot on. And that's the thing, so many people do want to live here, which is driving most of it because it's driving that demands. Although building upward would be possible, after all Japan has done it well and they are as prone to earthquakes as Cali is and chock full of skyscrapers, it's that folks don't want to give up the homes to make room for them. And many if not most are detached homes

    Funny thing, I live on the very outskirts of the LA metro region, in the foothills of the mountains and within a half mile from the San Andreas (the ground beneath my house moves often, earthquake or not). But I don't worry about quakes per se, but wildfires, which give me anxiety.
     
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  17. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl GC Hall of Fame

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    Then surely you are an expert on the California economy and state of affairs.
     
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  18. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Hardly, but I am an expert on the difficulties of relocating people there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  19. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    Same problem here. There is housing on pretty much every bit of available land, and we're building scores of high rise apartments downtown. Past that it's tearing down 100+ year old houses and replacing them with apartments, condos, or row houses and lots of people are against that because they like the character of their 100 year old neighborhoods. It's why we moved to them in the first place rather than a high rise condo downtown. My house is 94 years old, I don't want it, or any of my neighbor's houses, torn down and replaced with a modern box house, much less a bunch of condos or apartments. I love living on a historic 100 year old tree lined street whose houses are part of the city's history.

    Tear those types of houses down and you can fit in more people (although not necessarily make it affordable - see London, Hong Kong, New York etc.), but then you make Seattle's neighborhoods into some generic human storage unit rather than a desirable place to live. The solution is not to tear down houses, but to build out public transportation so people can live further away, yet still easily work in the city.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  20. gotime51

    gotime51 Premium Member

    And I would like to thank all of these people who who want to live in san diego so badly. My property value is sky high for when we retire and move. like having a second 401k
     
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