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POLL: If it were you would you stay and fight or leave?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by slightlyskeptic, Mar 8, 2022.

Would you say and fight or leave?

  1. Stay and fight the Ruskie bastids:

    47 vote(s)
    81.0%
  2. Leave and live with your decision for the rest of your life:

    11 vote(s)
    19.0%
  1. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Legend

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    One thing I think is interesting about the numbers in the link is that the age group that reports being overall unlikely to stay and fight rather than leave is 18-34 year olds at 45% and 48%, respectively. The age group which reports being the most like to stay and fight is 50-64 year olds at 66% and 28%, respectively. Maybe that's not surprising, but I found that interesting. Also, I see the "White/4 Year Coll Deg" designation listed in the data/results, but they clearly polled non-Whites because there are breakdowns by that. So I'm not sure what to make of the designation about White people with college degrees. Did they poll them separately for some reason?
     
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  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I'll add this to my evidence about only the honest answering #2.
     
  3. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Legend

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    I'm not even sure we even have to get to outright dishonesty. If senior citizens over age 65 say they're more willing to stay and "fight" than young people are willing to stay and "fight," it is possible that older folks feel more of a patriotic duty to do so. It is possible they genuinely feel they've lived their lives and would be willing to die- whether they would actually feel that way or not if this situation were imminent. However, it could also be that those responding to the poll assume that younger people would ultimately be the ones expected to be on the front lines fighting the Russian Army while older people would be assisting with logistics or whatever supporting roles. That would still be dangerous and laudable, of course.
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    My only point is that I can believe anyone who answers #2. By answering #1, there are plenty of reasons to suspect you might be fooling yourself or others. The fact that the people more likely to answer that way are the ones outside of the age range for a draft or conscription only adds to my reasons to suspect that.
     
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  5. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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  6. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Legend

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    I think you're right that there is an incentive for people to fool themselves even if they're trying to answer honestly. We want to believe that we would rise to the occasion. We want to view ourselves that way for our own self image and not just for the approval or admiration of others. I suspect some who think they could never handle fighting would wind up doing so (maybe even very well) and that the reverse would also be true.

    Even among soldiers who sincerely believed themselves capable of armed combat and had training that civilians do not have, there are reportedly a significant percentage who freeze and/or never fire their weapon. I think it's largely a "fight" or "flight" response. I imagine that training can and does play a role in managing that resopnse. But also, I think some people are just naturally more inclined to meet aggression with aggression even when doing that puts them in more danger. I've never been in armed combat and will defer to the veterans here, but I've seen guys freeze when a fist fight breaks out or go into a fetal position when they get hit. I've also seen those sorts of guys who just get stronger and more focused when under attack.
     
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  7. GrandPrixGator

    GrandPrixGator Premium Member

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    I think the only way to look at this question is to ask about a foreign invader coming onto US soil. Can't put myself in Ukranian shoes, in that part of the world. But answering the former question, I'd definitely fight on US soil. Honestly, it's a bit disconcerting to think of those that would tuck tail and run.
     
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  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Poorly trained militia units are basically canon fodder against professional armies, so even people that fight probably wont last long. They will either die or run. In a scenario where it does happen and you stay behind outside of military age, you are probably better positioned to act as some kind of clandestine resistance after occupation, unless its some kind of war of extermination.
     
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  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Why? Those people will be much more useful during an occupation than the people who basically want to commit suicide. I think you also have to consider that a lot of the images of people taking up arms or training with wooden guns in Ukraine are in fact, propaganda. Throwing a bunch of ordinary people into battle to get slaughtered isn't all that useful for morale or the appearance of not being completely desperate/losing.
     
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  10. GrandPrixGator

    GrandPrixGator Premium Member

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    It's disconcerting because it tells me there are those that don't understand the value of the freedom that they have. I think if they did then more would be willing to fight for it. Live in a cell (of sorts) or die in a field or being part of something similar to the French Resistance? I'll take the latter.
     
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  11. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

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    My country, my fight.
     
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  12. slightlyskeptic

    slightlyskeptic GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m honest. I would stay and fight. And in these circumstances conscription would not be limited by age. If you can shoot and move you can fight. There are plenty of older guys fighting in Ukraine. “Honest” ordinary people taking up arms and fighting for their country has been happening forever. Why you seem to doubt that or the motives of people saying they’d fight says a lot more about you than them.
     
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  13. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    The French Resistance wasn't a militia. They were people who didn't fight at the front living under occupation who engaged in clandestine resistance activities. If you flee your city because its going to be turned into rubble instead of dying in vain in some "last stand" you have every opportunity to continue resisting, which will be much more effective than taking up small arms against tanks, APCs and a trained military. I mean, even fleeing to another country and organizing some kind of opposition could be more effective if you are a person of means or ability. Of course, the poll is basically presented in a way of asking "are you a real man or a coward." Which is going to necessarily result in some puffery.
     
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  14. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Of course, in your made up circumstances you can do anything. You're the main character in your own fantasy. You can probably convince yourself you'd take out 10 Russian tanks with your grandpa's squirrel gun. Then get laid by a hot girl with an Uzi in a foxhole. All with the full knowledge that your fantasy will never meet reality.
     
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  15. GrandPrixGator

    GrandPrixGator Premium Member

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    I took it as flee or fight. How you fight could vary. I'm not suggesting you sprint across no-man's land (WW1) or set up like American Revolution fighting, but I also don't think fleeing or staying and "fighting" by sprinkling extra salt on your captor's food in hopes they get heart disease is the answer either. It's not about being a hero or some dumb fantasy, but just knowing that what we have here is worth fighting/dying for. Previous generations understood this.
     
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  16. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

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    A hot girl with an Uzi is every guy's fantasy.
     
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  17. slightlyskeptic

    slightlyskeptic GC Hall of Fame

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    No. Unlike you I actually give a shit about things greater than myself. It ain’t fantasy. You have no idea about who I or other people are and what motivates them and what they are or aren’t capable of. I don’t actually think there would ever be a situation like what is happening in the Ukraine here in the US. But if put in the circumstances like that in Ukraine I would certainly fight. You can make attempts at mockery but as I said, all it does is define you.
     
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  18. icequeen_

    icequeen_ GC Hall of Fame

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    Even if you can't fight, there are support roles/positions that would be needed. Medical, cooking, preparing weapons (think the women preparing Molotovs). Again my kids are a priority but I'd try to find some way to help.

    As for killing, I think of my dad. Crawled out of burning wreckage in North Vietnam & had to kill in hand to hand before getting rescued. Burned, broken bones, some crew mates dead & others also injured and fighting. If he can do THAT then I can find some way to be useful, and especially if my kids' lives were on the line I'd like to think I'd shoot first, make peace with God later.
     
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  19. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    If the invasion happens, I will gleefully kill any invader wearing a Russian uniform or Trump pajamas.
     
  20. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Of Americans? We havent had a war on our own soil that didnt involve shooting each other. We as a country for generations have had very little understanding of this outside of entertainment or news in other countries lol.
     
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