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Police shooting of minors

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by l_boy, May 2, 2021.

  1. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    The Numbers Tell a Different Story About Police Killings of Minors

    "Many Americans are misinformed about the dimensions of this problem––and are prone to accept disturbing but false narratives, such as that police officers in America hunt and kill Black children, or radical remedies, such as defunding or abolishing the police in the name of protecting children. The wrong solutions might well result in the deaths of more children from causes other than police killings."


    "Other data show that police shootings are not among the most frequent causes of death for children, even setting aside medical conditions such as cancer. In 2016, the most recent year for which I could find detailed statistics, 16 minors were shot and killed by police. These were among the other causes of death for people under 18:

    • Motor-vehicle crashes: 4,074
    • Gun homicides: 1,865
    • Suffocation suicides: 1,110
    • Gun suicides: 1,102
    • Drownings: 995
    • Drug overdoses or poisonings: 982
    • Fires or burns: 340
    • Gun accidents: 126"



    "After the Ma’Khia Bryant killing, numerous influential Twitter accounts called for or amplified calls for abolishing the police. One such comment came from the activist and former Green Party vice-presidential nominee Rosa Clemente, who tweeted, “Police are the clear and present danger. They are killing our children … The President and Vice-President need to declare an emergency declaration and remove police from ALL BLACK AND BROWN communities now!!!”

    The relationships among the size of a police force, police activity, police killings, and civilian murders are hotly contested. But suppose that removing the police from all Black and brown communities reduced police killings of minors by 100 percent, while the absence of police and the lack of crime investigation led to an increase in civilian murders of minors by just 5 percent—in my view a very conservative estimate. That would result, in a year such as 2016, in 16 fewer kids killed by police and 93 more kids shot to death by civilians. On net, 77 more children would die. If police killings were eliminated while civilian murders rose just 1 percent, more kids would still lose their life."
     
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  2. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    Next you are going to say that parents abuse more kids than stranger danger
     
  3. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    Stranger danger is a very confusing message. Especially for an autistic kid. One our kids therapists introduced and talked to him about no talking to strangers, etc. As a result, if he was with us and somebody he didn't know spoke or said hi to us, our son would freak out and start yelling at them. It took us a while to get him off of that.
     
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  4. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    I’m sure you can always find someone who believes something. But Do you think that many people believe that being killed by police was one of the leading causes of teen deaths?

    or did I misunderstand your post?
     
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  5. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Focusing on the Ma'Khia Bryant incident, and agree that it was incredibly tragic for a number of reasons if Bryant ended up stabbing the other girl and killing her or inflicting serious bodily injury the same folks who are condemning the police for shooting her would be condemning them for not acting. While the incident was tragic it was clearly a justifiable shooting by the police officer. If there is any criticism it would be for firing multiple shots when one may have been sufficient. As far as defunding the police is concerned, residents of minority communities are as opposed to the proposal as much if not more than voters in general as Tom Friedman pointed out in a column in the NY Times last September.
    For Biden to Win, Listen to Minneapolis
    Among those opposing this change is a budding coalition of Black and white community leaders from North Minneapolis, the historical home of the Minneapolis Black community. (I was born in the Northside in 1953 when it was also the home of the Jewish community.) They are unnerved by the notion of dismantling the police force for a vague alternative at a time when their neighborhood has experienced a surge in gang shootings, lootings and drug dealing — all exacerbated by the pandemic, spiraling unemployment and demoralized police officers, who, after the Floyd killing, don’t always have the numbers or the will to show up.

    On Aug. 18, this coalition — four Black and four white families from North Minneapolis — filed suit against the City Council and the mayor, Jacob Frey, to compel them to maintain the legal minimum of police officers on the Minneapolis force. The families contend that the Council’s actions have driven out too many police officers and curtailed the hiring of replacements, endangering their neighborhood.
     
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  6. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    There are polls out there on this question as well as polls on how often the public believes the police shoot their weapons. It’s a lot..
    Hyperbole distorts reality.
     
  7. mutz87

    mutz87 p=.06 VIP Member

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    I'll keep saying it, the threat of policing--in particular to blacks and the less affluent of any race--has been hyper-aggressive enforcement in some communities that occasionally ends in death, but often involves less than lethal violence or threats thereof, and threats of arrest and unnecessary stops & searches etc.

    This makes for heightened fear & distrust of police (going on for many decades) because they aren't perceived as protecting people but there to aggressively patrol and take people's freedoms away. If one lives in these communities, concern of situations going terribly awry over minor or non-existent criminality is a legit fear.This is the situation that hyper-aggressive war on drugs and broken windows policing created.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021
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  8. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I think there are those out there who think police shootings, especially of minorities, is far more frequent that it is. You have people calling for abolition of police forces because of a few dozen unarmed shootings of minorities across the nation every year. With children even less.

    People have no feel or understanding of statistics. They consume sensationalist media and think that is representative of reality.


    Half of Survey's Very Liberal Respondents Believe 1,000 or More Unarmed Black Men Killed by Police in 2019

    upload_2021-5-2_17-2-54.jpeg


    "A survey produced by Skeptic.com reveals that people who identify as liberal or very liberal believe 1,000 or more unarmed black men were murdered by police in 2019.

    According to the Washington Post database, that number was 12. The Mapping Police Violence database says the number was 27.

    The survey says among the very liberal, more than 50% believe American law enforcement killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. Nearly 8% of the very liberal respondents believe officers killed more than 10,000 unarmed black men in 2019.

    About 39% of self-identified liberal respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. A little 5% of liberal respondents said that number was more than 10,000."


    Edit : the chart shows that about 20% of very liberal people think 10,000 or more unarmed blacks are killed each year. I'm going to guess a lot of these are the ones who are protesting.
     
  9. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    geez, those are really depressing and disappointing numbers. So many ridiculously uniformed people out there ...
     
  10. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    I'm skeptical of how they got these numbers, but nonetheless - police shootings on their face may garner more attention than they deserve, but they're also part of larger racial issues that plague our society. They're over scrutinized because they're both highly visible and they're being carried out by our own government.
     
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  11. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    Over scrutinized and over amplified are different sides of the coin. One creates statistical falsehoods and the other does not. That has been the point on many of these circular discussions on similar topics. We have data, sometimes
     
  12. mutz87

    mutz87 p=.06 VIP Member

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    Generally, there is a lot of ignorance and bad perceptions about crime, not to mention people's individual risk of being a victim...or a certain type of victim. @exiledgator is spot on regarding the underlying issues that give rise to extreme emotional responses to the least frequent of police/public encounters--killings. Make no mistake, the general threat from a 40 plus year war on drugs and hyper-aggressive *proactive* policing is responsible for perceptions that police are out to get some people such that when they kill someone, it only reinforces this reality. FWIW, we have a lot of data on crime and still in many ways it's not enough.
     
  13. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    It's easy to just give people a pass on being wrong on the core issue, because of the overarching history of racial issues, but the problem is those who are making this a major issue are advocating very specific solutions, like abolishing or defunding the police, in response to an issue that pretty much doesn't exist to a material degree.

    If you can't correctly articulate the problem, then you aren't likely to solve the problem.
     
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  14. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I boy / mutz

    And how much does the fact that the public in general is being made aware of these police interactions with citizens?

    While some statistics show violent crime continuing to decline, i BELIEVE that social media and the I-Phone camera / video technology has dramatically changed the game.

    It's not like the George Floyd's of the world are suddenly "happening" NO, it's that video is now awakening the DUMB American public as to what really happens in our society every day. Pandora has left the box for the cops.

    Perhaps the country is awakening to the facts of the parallel lives that many citizens lead, and in my opinion it's not just systemic skin color racism at work here, it's economic discrimination as well. Anyone that denies this, I will call a LIAR!

    Our people, our culture, our nation is in the painful throes of having to shake off long standing abusive and cultural patterns of behavior and acceptance. Despite what McConnell says the 1619 project MUST be initiated.

    I laugh at Biden / Harris / McConnell -

    NOT A RACIST COUNTRY? LOL

    By ANY measure one cares to compare against the United States is one of the most racist countries to ever exist in the history of the planet.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  15. DoubleDown11

    DoubleDown11 GC Hall of Fame

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    Seems like you're doing something similar by saying that people want to abolish police because they kill so many black children.

    That's an extreme talking point that's not really representative of most people who think there is a policing issue in this country.

    The "defund the police" movement took off last summer when it there were numerous examples of protests escalating once police showed up in armored trucks and riot gear. That has nothing to do with killing black children.
     
  16. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    Look at violent crime rates of past decades compared to where we are now. There has been a marked decline since 95? But public perception is that it has been increasing. The issue is not that citizens are aware of incidents, its that the incidents become magnified way beyond their statistical occurrences and thus create false perceptions.
    Clearly this occurs with every issue magnified in the media/social media.
     
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  17. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes racism exists in the US. Does that mean we are a "racist country"? They don't exactly mean or imply the same.

    I suspect in some ways in spite of the racism that exists here, it is one of the more tolerant countries overall. In spite of the racism that does exist, we can elect a black President. I don't think you could say that about many countries.

    You seem pretty determined to use these videos as a representation of overall police interactions, in spite of statistics that clearly refute it. Then you characterize anybody who doesn't agree with you a LIAR. Good luck with all that.
     
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  18. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    It actually has been increasing in 2020 and 2021, after decades of declines.
     
  19. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I am determined that people watch video interactions with police? Why wouldn't they?

    I defined LIAR as those that won't acknowledge police discrimination is BOTH of a racist and economic nature. My brother was a cop, I rode with him, I saw a few things. Does not make me an expert but it was REAL witnessing to reality.

    If you or ANYONE on this board does not want to acknowledge economic discrimination as well, (it ain't just black folk abused by police) then yeah I think your full of it. Frankly it is my belief the only thing WORSE than racism in this country is the economic stratification and discrimination that goes on.
     
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  20. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

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    Looks like your research isn’t telling the whole story.