Phoenix halting future growth because of lack of groundwater

How many trillions would this cost? We going to create a federal water bureacracy to manage all this? I thought we were DOGE’ing?

Don’t get me wrong, the feds should probably make states/locals get proactive BEFORE it comes to what Phoenix is doing here. Maybe even subsidize some regional projects like desalination to relieve these pressures to the extent possible. But coast-to-coast national water pipes???

 

California got very lucky this year with atmospheric rivers filling up their reservoirs. They will be running out of water again in a few years. I suspect that they are highly susceptible to El Nino/La Nina effects, and their water situation tends to be feast (rarely) or famine (frequently).

 

I wonder where this project is two years later? Honestly it seems like a pretty bad idea to pump salt slurry into the Sea of Cortez. It’s already saltier than the oceans and has reduced water exchange.

I don’t know how much land it would require for this size of desal plant but I would think salterns were the salt could be collected and sold, or stored elsewhere, would be much better for the environment.

 

Do you have any idea what a cross-country pipeline system would cost, if we had flat terrain (and we don't), to deliver enough water from one side of the country to another to make a difference? You are talking about 12' diameter (or greater) pipelines. The number and size of the pumps to get the required flow would be ridiculous, and that is not even factoring in the elevation change of getting over the Rocky Mountains. And then you would have to worry about biological disasters, as fish and other wildlife would be transferred along with the water to parts of the country where they don't belong. I don't know if the U.S. could afford this kind of system (just like we cannot afford a 1954-mile 30'-high wall on the border with Mexico).

China is attempting to do something like this on a slightly smaller scale, in moving water from the Yang-tze River to the Beijing area (across the Yellow River!), including Tianjin. I think they are using a series of canals and pipelines as well as tunnels along with existing rivers. There are no significant mountain ranges to block the pipelines or make the canals very difficult. Tunneling under rivers is one of the things that makes the project complicated (and expensive).

South–North Water Transfer Project - Wikipedia

 

It will and would be much cheaper to move water from flooded areas to dry ones where it's desperately needed. 1 trillion, not sure it would cost that much, but even if it did, by 2050+ it's going to cost a lot more to deal with Water shortages and flooding. Water pipes could be run along side interstates if needed, water isn't hazardous like oil or gas... We cant keep pumping water out of the ground and expect great things to happen, our population and food production is creating a deficit everywhere, even water surplus areas of Florida are suffering from salt water intrusion from wells.

 

The Colorado River Basin has lost as much groundwater as the entire volume of Lake Mead

 

a slurry line to a desert environment would be ideal btu then there woudl be some bowevil in the soil that has 1 hair different than the rest of the bowevils inthe world and they wouldn't allow the settling ponds

OT- sort of, the salt ponds int he mountaisn in Peru were amazing. little trickle of a stream flowing 24/7 feeds hundreds of acres of settling ponds terraced on a montain side and they harvest 3 -4 times a dry season

would shallow salt pools increase reflectivity and allow for solar harvest on both sides of the cell?

 

I wonder if these can cause deep sinkholes?

 

You want to spend a trillion dollars (or more) to try to capture floodwater that only exists for maybe a week out of the year on average and pump it to the other side of the country, over a mountain range that is over 7,000' high at the lowest pass? First of all, what happens when it floods is that mud and debris (tree branches, etc.) gets washed into the flooding rivers. It's not clear water in the rivers. You will need massive settling ponds and elaborate filtration systems to keep the mud and debris out of the big pumps. Then you would need reservoirs along the way because a pump can only pump so much so far. Every time you cross a highway or a river, you will have to elevate the piping above the crossing or tunnel underneath the river. If you need to cross the Mississippi, which has ocean-going traffic on it, you might have to elevate your 12'-pipeline as much as 167 feet (the height of the Huey P. Long Bridge in New Orleans) to keep ships from hitting it.

As you start to go up the mountains, these reservoirs will become more frequent to deal with the elevation changes, because a high-flow pump can only put out so much pressure (before it becomes a high-maintenance pump). All these reservoirs will have evaporation, which is not helping the cause. The evaporation will increase when going through warm & dry areas, like west Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. Each reservoir will need people to monitor and maintain the pumps, piping, and reservoirs.

It might take months to get water from 5% of a flood of the Mississippi River to the west coast, while losing half of it in the process. It might be cheaper to pay for desalination in the places that need more water, especially west of the Rockies. And once you get whatever water you can to the destination, you may have to lay off the entire workforce (except for some maintenance people) for six months or more to wait for the next flood. It is simply not cost-effective. The other problem is that America does not have rivers that flood every year at the same place. It will be hit or miss.

 

People can just buy bottled water

 

This is one of those bright ideas that Bill Maher has pimped from time to time.

Bill Maher Wants Pipelines From “Where Water Is To Where It Isn’t"

 

good read from a former co-worker that does hydrology around the world

Era of relying on increased withdrawals of inexpensive groundwater is over | Opinion