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Pat Forde on the LSU/Arizona scandals(HBO)

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by Donnell, Mar 19, 2020.

  1. Donnell

    Donnell VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    • Informative Informative x 3
  2. bgator85

    bgator85 Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    I certainly hope we would act differently if something like this happened here. LSU fans are brushing this off as if this is all perfectly normal and acceptable. To be honest, not even sure why they seem willing to go to such lengths to protect him. What's so special about Wade that they'd put themselves through this?
  3. ufg8r3283

    ufg8r3283 Freshman

    Dec 7, 2019
  4. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 9, 2007
    I'm not sure how Wade still has a job.

    Miller still has a job because he's smart not to say anything definitive. As this link states, there is no smoking gun on Miller. For example, when asked if Miami has an advantage over Arizona, and Dawkins answers Adidas, it could be interpreted as Adidas will pay for Little to go to Miami, but Arizona, a Nike school, doesn't have shoe money available to pay for a kid.

    Preposterous, I know, that Adidas would pay and Nike would not. But where's the direct evidence against Miller? If it's out there, Miller's career as a college coach is done for now. If not, then it's just the words of convicted felons and statements from Miller that is innuendo, but not direct evidence.

    Which leads to another issue within the Arizona Athletic Department. We're still paying for RichRod's buyout, and Sumlin was a mistake hire. Nobody did less with more talent than Sumlin at Texas A&M. At Arizona, he has less talent, and doing even less! 9-15 record and two losses to Arizona State in his first two year. Reason why Sumlin wasn't let go was money. Next year, RichRod is fully paid off, and Sumlin's buyout is only two years.

    If Arizona can fire Miller with cause and avoid any buyout, I'd support it. But with the evidence we have now, Miller probably won't go down without a fight, which means more costs.

    Current conditions aren't helping either. Arizona Men's basketball was going to play in the big dance, and ranked #12, Arizona Women was going to host and likely draw 10,000+ for each game. Both Arizona Baseball and Softball average about 2,000 fans a game, and multiple games have been cancelled.

    If Arizona didn't have to worry about money, firing Miller would be an easier decision. But that's not the reality within the Arizona AD right now. If the NCAA comes down with a hammer, and Miller can be fired with cause and no buyout, that changes the calculus.
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

    Apr 10, 2007
    I see a subtle shift in your perspective.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 9, 2007
    I think I've been rather consistent. Is Miller a cheater? Yes. But if Nike is spending $100,000 for a top recruit to spend 9 months in Tucson, and Adidas is spending similar money to get kids to Lawrence, KS, then does anyone really think these shoe companies aren't paying kids to play in Durham, NC or Syracuse, NY?

    As for Miller, there needs to be definitive proof. So far, it's a lot of innuendo built on the words of convicted felons. Is that enough to fire a coach with cause?
  7. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Miami, OK
    I'm a big Mike White supporter but if that was him on the call, I would want him gone. No ifs, ands or buts.....disgrace to the university...

    But it wasn't White, and another reason I appreciate his service as coach of the Gators.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  8. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 9, 2007
    Certainly there are Arizona fans that want Miller gone. Not just because of the scandal, but because the last two years haven't been up to usual, Arizona Basketball standards.

    Unfortunately, the finances make things more complicated. Miller has 2 years left on his current contract worth 3 million a year. Sumlin has 3 left at just over 2 million a year. And we're still paying RichRod about 2 million a year.

    If the NCAA hammer comes down and Miller can be fired without costing the school a dime, he's gone. But that hasn't happened yet, and again, the evidence against Miller is bad, but it's not overwhelming.

    Maybe Sumlin turns things around and isn't fired next year? That would change things too. But I'm not holding my breathe.
  9. Claygator

    Claygator GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 11, 2007
    Of course others are cheating too, but that doesn’t excuse keeping him around.Miller is dirty as hell and should be fired now. Wade is a total dirt bag who is completely busted, but it’s LSU folks. You think Orgeron isn’t cheating like hell? LSU, Alabama, Auburn, don’t care as long as they win.. The NCAA needs to start hammering people. If they don’t, and I’m a coach, why wouldn’t I cheat?
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

    May 29, 2007
    Richmond, VA
    Well, since we don't have anything else to do...:mad:

    My take is Tennessee and Pearl. He got hired (maybe he had a record and they overlooked it) and he was successful. He then got caught up in the reality of trying to get more from less. I am taking about building recruiting pipelines to a less-than-elite caliber school. He was released by Tennessee.

    Now he has "gotten religion" and was hired by Auburn. Gotten religion or he has worked on his "inside game" to work more effectively with his outside shots? I think we all know which one.

    Why this reply? because Tennessee had plausible deniability but Auburn does not. Auburn KNOWS what it has and what it wants. They wanted success to a level they aspire and they do not care how it comes about. And to me that is EXACTLY what LSU has signed on for. And I do not doubt that is what Arizona and Kansas did with Miller and Self. And I think UNC and Williams are like Auburn and Pat Dye: the program is bigger than the university in the eyes of the deep pockets. Duke? I think it is mostly about a guy who had enough history to be deified and so no one fires the pope.

    Kentucky? besides having "The Firm" firmly in place (like Bama in football) I have to think most fans are tired of Cal. His shtick is "entertaining" in the short term and a real battery drain in the long. Not to mention the money drain.

    I believe Mike is our coach because we have not "gone for it" like an Auburn or LSU. I sort of get Auburn. I truly don't get LSU. And if I ever got the feeling UF decided to "get into the game" I would definitely find something better to do in the cold weather season.

    Not that this season was "salvaged" by this crisis as I do believe Mike has one more year to show his ceiling is higher than it appears right now. And if UF decides to go with someone else I am afraid that Plan B is only going to be marginally better (or worse) than him. There just aren't that many quality coaches who embrace the noble idea of competition with a HUGE paycheck on the line. JMHO
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. MadduxFanII

    MadduxFanII GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 10, 2007
    I haven't seen the documentary, but based on Forde's story, I think the problem from an enforcement/legal perspective is that, however damning these recordings sound to a normal person, there's a bare level of plausible deniability for Wade and Miller that wouldn't be persuasive to anyone here but could complicate efforts to hold them accountable.

    Take this, for example, about the "strong-ass offer:"

    “I went to him with a f------ strong-ass offer about a month ago. F------ strong. But the problem was, I know why he didn’t take it now, be

    cause it was it was f------ tilted toward the family a little bit. But I mean, it was a f------ hell of a f------ offer. Hell of an offer. Especially for a kid who is going to be a two- or three-year kid. I’ve made deals for a lot of players who are as good as him that were f------ a lot simpler than this.”

    Dawkins’ on-camera interpretation of the conversation: “They ain’t talking about a scholarship offer, bro.”

    The Wade-Dawkins conversation actually begins with some byplay between the two about Jaron Blossomgame, a former Clemson player Dawkins was working with on behalf of ASM Sports Agency leading up to the 2017 NBA draft. Dawkins makes joking reference to Blossomgame going undrafted and coming back to school to play at LSU, which prompts this response from the coach: “We could compensate him better than the rookie minimum. We could give him more than the (NBA) D-League.”

    Now, does everyone with half a brain understand what Wade is saying here? Of course. But Wade has a contract and LSU can get out of paying him his contracted salary only under very specific circumstances, and if they try to fire him for cause, Wade can just argue:

    "I was simply referring to a scholarship offer and all the benefits that come with it. Dawkins said I wasn't referring to a scholarship offer? How would he know? He's not psychic. And why would anyone trust Christian Dawkins anyway? The Blossomgame stuff? Oh, come on. That was obviously a joke - listen to the tone. We were talking about a kid who was out of eligibility. It didn't mean anything."

    Obviously that's not remotely persuasive to fans or reporters. But there's a high bar to essentially voiding a contract, and if Wade (or Miller) can make even a vaguely plausible argument in court it would be a very unpleasant experience for LSU.
    • Agree Agree x 1