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Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Gatorrick22, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    So it seems like you are opting out, but not before mischaractering my views and dehumanizing me - “I’m OK with civilian death” blah blah blah.

    No, I am not “OK” with it. But I’m not OK with Oct 7th either. This is what happens when you declare war on another country (territory / whatever)

    Through all of this you have not articulated an alternative course of action, other than “2 state solution” which Palestinians have never supported.

    Have you ever asked yourself why bordering Egypt, or other middle eastern countries have not stepped in to help the Gazans?
     
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  2. gatorjo

    gatorjo GC Hall of Fame

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    Your questions are irrelevant. They don't excuse the Israeli tolerance for, and causation of, massive civilian death and suffering as a response to a terrorist act.

    Nor is it mischaracterizing your position at all. Unless I am wrong, you support this Israeli action in Gaza. Which means you consider the collateral damage an unfortunate, but either necessary or tolerable, side effect.

    Does it help if I phrase it differently? You are willing to tolerate such civilian death and suffering? You accept that it will happen? It's the same thing, really.

    Me, I consider the civilian casualties shameful and unacceptable. You.....well......you can put it in your own words.
     
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  3. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    So you oppose all war, including all wars ever engaged in by the US?
     
  4. gatorjo

    gatorjo GC Hall of Fame

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    That's a bit of a subject change, isn't it?

    I certainly oppose THIS military operation. Which IMO cannot actually necessarily even be called a war.

    The analysis generally breaks down to analysis of cost, benefit, the probable outcomes of alternatives and an attainable objective, the last of which IMO is not present here.
     
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  5. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Nice post. I think, though, if you follow the recent resignations from the government, the signs are pointing to the need to form a new government sooner than later. I’m definitely no expert, it that is how I see it.
     
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  6. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Unless, the Hamas goal is as much blood as can flow from its people to bolster its PR campaign. Others have posted articles on this already, but here’s this summary:

     
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  7. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    If that's the case why is Israel indulging Hamas by doing exactly what they want? That would seem to make Israel pretty stupid right?
     
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  8. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Because Israel is focused in its goals, and doesn’t care what BBC has to say about them. Right or wrong.
     
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  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    So its goals are aligned with Hamas? Does that mean we are funding terrorism by supporting Israel?
     
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  10. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    It's all so terrible.

    On one side, HAMAS - Death to all Jews and all that support them. Kill all you want Bibi / IDF, you are just strengthening our cause for the next round.

    On the other - speculation on my part but, I agree with those that consider Bibi wants to drag this thing out as long as possible. He now understands
    the Oct. massacre has lost him much political capital, so much so, according to some Jewish press reports, that he is toast at the conclusion.
    So of course he wants to "fix" the unfixable. But he will never eliminate all vestiages of Hamas or Hezbolla. He's making it worse now.
    Jews of conscious better consider that the current state of affairs, if allowed to continue, may result in a wider conflict.

    And Bibi (and his wife) have that fraud and court case hanging over their head, it will be interesting if Bibi really "meant" all his bullshit about being a Jewish patriot and he is only concerned about what is in the best interest of the nation, or is he just another "Trumper", ................it's all about me.
     
  11. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually if we stopped supporting Israel we would be demonstrating that the Hamas strategy of sacrificing Palestinian civilians has been successful.
     
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  12. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    So, if I follow, we have to keep giving them money and weapons to do exactly what Hamas wants, and if we dont, Hamas wins.
     
  13. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Hamas wins when antipathy to Israel increases and what better way to create antipathy then to sacrifice Palestinian civilians especially women and children.
     
  14. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I would say antipathy towards Israel has increased a lot since their military campaign post 10/7, and will only increase the more they slaughter people and commit defacto genocide (and dejure war crimes). So how is Hamas not winning with Israel pursuing this course? You guys are arguing that Israel should play into their hands. I dont get it.
     
  15. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    You can say Hamas wont agree to a ceasefire, but Israel doesnt have to keep bombing them or have the IDF in Gaza either. They can just stop the war themselves. They were getting rockets fired at them before 10/7. That was literally the status quo prior, and they were more or less ok with it, given their Iron dome money and the general ineffectiveness of the rocket attacks to begin with. In all their other limited incursions, they didnt need an accord with Hamas to stop.
     
  16. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/idf-announces-hamas-cannot-be-destroyed/

    On Wednesday, Daniel Hagari, spokesman for the Israeli Defense Forces, publicly stated that “the idea that we can destroy Hamas or make Hamas disappear is misleading to the public.” This announcement stands in direct contradiction to the stated war aims of Netanyahu; notably his vocal support for the destruction of Hamas.

    Hagari added that it “is throwing sand in the eyes of the public” to insist that Hamas can be destroyed, and that if Israel does not put forward a coherent postwar vision for Gaza, then Hamas will reappear.

    In response to the military’s statement, Netanyahu’s office reiterated its war aims including the destruction of Hamas’s “military and governmental capacities.”

    The now-open feud between the Netanyahu government and the IDF has been simmering for months. The Israeli army relies on the mobilization of reservists, and months of engagement in Gaza have left many of them exhausted, and the Israeli military feels that a respite from fighting is necessary in case the situation with Hezbollah escalates.
     
  17. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I’ve been saying for months that their strategy here was flawed and Netanyahu was screwing them for personal reasons. I guess now that the Israeli military is saying it out loud I can just sit here and enjoy being right.
     
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  18. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 GC Hall of Fame

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    I just think it’s crazy they don’t know definitively when his term will end.
     
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  19. gatorjo

    gatorjo GC Hall of Fame

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    Well color me shocked.

    Maybe they should kill more civilians while they fail to achieve their misleading goal.
     
  20. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/20/middleeast/hagari-netanyahu-destroy-hamas-israel-intl/index.html

    I go back to bibi's announcement after the massacre. He said he was going to eliminating HAMAS, (completely).
    He also had some descriptive adjectives to use about the hell and destruction about to befall Hamas/Gaza.

    I took him at his word, and posted as much. He has been true, will there be one building standing when the iDF is done?
    Look at the pictures, it's unbelievable. What GAZA needs are 1,000 of the biggest bulldozers in the world to start clearing the rubble heap.
    The place looks like Berlin, March 1945.

    I also did not believe what Bibi claimed for one second. Short of killing every male over 10 years old, exactly HOW does he do this?

    Bibi and the conservative faction want blood and I suppose an unconditional surrender. Does ANYONE really think that is possible?
    Hamas are religous fanatics. Apparantly they approve of tens of thousands of their women and children dying at their feet.
    Their leader said that was good, it only helps the cause. Nothing like religous martys running the show.

    Now Hezbolla looks like they are entering the conflict, not to mention the Houtis.

    What is the solution? Should Israel just force a Palestinian exodus to other Arab States, and resettle GAZA? Thats what the hard right is demanding.
    What about the West bank? Should Israel do the same there?

    The less extreme factions are calling for a revived Palestinian Authority, but if I understand that correclty, anyone in that role is essentially an Israeli approved
    puppet.

    Well, like I said when Bibi made his speech, the blood will flow and the consequenses will be terrible. That is proving out.

    And for me, as a non Jewish American Citizen, the last issue is, how far down this Crocodile Pit does the US go? This is a difficult situation no matter
    ones political party. Most Americans stand with Israel, I do, but there are limits. Bibi is pushing those limits to the extreme.
     
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