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Neil DeGrasse Tyson vs Ben Shapiro on transgenders in sports

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    Not sure what your point is. Is Thomas better than the best women's distance swimmer of all time? Is that your argument?
     
  2. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    First, I don't think Thomas should have been allowed to compete against women but that's based on "her" appearance. I have no idea how long she was been a combination of puberty blockers and estrogen or what her blood levels of estrogen and testosterone were when she competed compared with those of genetic women. In response to your question my argument was that contrary to the popular narrative, transgender female athletes are not superhuman when compared with genetic women and that in the case of Thomas her best time was remotely close to that of Ledecky. By the way, my opinion of whether or not a transgender male-to-female athlete should be allowed to compete against genetic women probably wouldn't satisfy those believe that trans athletes shouldn't compete against genetic women under any conditions which I assume is your position nor would it satisfy those who have a much more liberal position on the subject.
     
  3. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    Don't understand your argument. I don't see anyone saying Trans athletes are "superhuman". But, we have Thomas who WON an NCAA title at the expense of other women. Trans "women" have a distinct advantage that has already been discussed. This trans person used it to "her" advantage and won.
     
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  4. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps you could give us your source.

    From Wiki: “Thomas began swimming on the men's team at the University of Pennsylvania in 2017, and during her freshman year, recorded a time of 8 minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle that ranked as the sixth-fastest national men's time, as well as 500-yard freestyle and 1,650-yard freestyle times ranked within the national top 100.”
     
  5. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    Pro tip: Wiki isn't always right.

    Top Times
     
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  6. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    Yeah, I didn't get that either. But, actually, I think pretty much every video that's labeled as one person destroying another in a discussion is hugely exaggerated . Tyson said the sports issue is unresolved. And obviously it is.
    My gut feeling is that trans women/girls shouldn't be competing against women. I'm not sure the details or validity of hormone testing to see if the process has gone far enough.
     
  7. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, seems less workable for team sports, but I like this sort of thinking as it seeks to embrace both inclusion and fairness.
     
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  8. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    I have said multiple times that I think individual governing bodies should be utilizing data to determine how this issue should be handled. I have also stated that even within swimming in particular, there seems to be an issue for sprints. I am not opposed to regulations, as long as it is based on evidence and is handled by the governing bodies.

    So will you now admit to lying about me? Or try to weasel out because you would have preferred that my position be something else?
     
  9. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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    Okay thanks. I noticed Thomas was listed with the men at that time being ranked #24, not 462. I also noticed they’re showing Lia Thomas, not William Thomas.
     
  10. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    I asked for proof which you didn't provide. Also, you going to apologize for lying about what Thomas's ranking was?
     
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  11. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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    Ask for the source before accusing someone of lying and demanding an apology. After all you were mistaken when stating he was ranked #462.
     
  12. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    No I wasn't. He as ranked 462 during the time frame I quoted.
     
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  13. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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  14. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    You're right, "he" was ranked 554th in the 200, not 462.

    A Look At the Numbers and Times: No Denying the Advantages of Lia Thomas


    Just how much of an advantage did Lia Thomas possesses over biological females? The numbers paint a clear picture. The fact that the University of Pennsylvania swimmer soared from a mid-500s ranking (554th in the 200 freestyle; all divisions) in men’s competition to one of the top-ranked swimmers in women’s competition tells the story of the unfairness which unfolded at the NCAA level.
     
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  15. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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    But that has nothing to do with you getting the ranking wrong. How about addressing that rather than running away from it after calling someone else a liar, and demanding an apology.
     
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  16. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    I was actually wrong. It was the 5th fastest time. My apologies.

    Top Times Report

    Constrain your search to male, 1,000, FR, and SCY (which is what colleges run). He swam at 8:57.55. Here is the list:

    1 8:46.99 Novak, Brennan Harvard University NS 02/23/2018
    2 8:48.80 Houck, Logan Harvard University NS 02/23/2018
    3 8:49.49 Ipsen, Anton North Carolina State NS 01/26/2018
    4 8:51.16 Yeadon, Zachary Notre Dame, University NS 02/21/2018
    5 8:57.55 Thomas, William University of NS 02/23/2018
    6 8:58.18 Snyder, Zachary Harvard University NS 02/23/2018
     
  17. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    I didn't get the ranking wrong. He was ranked 462 at "one point". Google is your friend.
     
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  18. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Wait, you want me to link to you the multiple posts in which I said that? Would you like me to constrain the search only to direct replies to you in which I stated that? Also, I just provided the list, and I was incorrect...Thomas did not swim the 6th fastest time in the 1,000 yards that year. It was the 5th fastest time. My apologies.
     
  19. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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    Well I did google and it was nowhere to be found. That’s why I asked for your source, and the source you supplied said you were wrong. All you have to do is show us the information you gave was correct.
     
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  20. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    This looks incomplete. My list has those and others that are much higher. Kid was 24th. Then won as a trans women

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