Neil DeGrasse Tyson vs Ben Shapiro on transgenders in sports

fair point. Updated my post to state ‘my opinion ‘

 

This numbers game likely leads to a contradiction. How much of the population is heterosexual? And how many movies or TV have included a hetero scene or characters?

What about black population vs shows and movies with a black character? Or white people and characters?

In all cases, I’m guessing the answer to these questions will be the same: The proportion of productions which feature characters with those identities will exceed the proportions of people who identity as such. This is likely due to the fact that a show almost invariably include multiple characters, while people usually only possess a single identity on any given axis.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that a man would go through the long process of gender reassignment just so he can compete against women? Come on man.

 

There is one study that indicated even after two years of hormone therapy transgender women who have gone through male puberty retain an advantage of around 10% compared with genetic women using those metric. To the best of my knowledge there have been no studies comparing transgender individuals who never went through male puberty. That being said elite female athletes have an advantage of around 30% using the same metrics compared the average genetic women. In other words, Lia Thomas would have absolutely no chance of beating Katie Ladecky. In fact Thomas even though "she" dominated the Ivy League swim meet didn't even place in the Women's NCAA finals. In a similar thread well over a year ago I cited the example of Juniper Eastwood, a transgender cross country runner. As a male she finished 8th in her state high school finals. As a female she finished in the top 10 in some smaller meets. In the NCAA Division 1 Regionals competing against top female runners she didn't even finish in the top 50.

 

My point was if you established full transition ( junk removal )as required to compete it would make a compelling argument on one aspect. And yes I do believe there are duplicitous and self serving individuals that would say or do anything if it served their interests.

 

Ehmmm…how could this possibly only matter for sports? I think that’s a cop out. If it matters for sports, logically, it matters elsewhere. To me this idea it only matters for sports is an effort to backdoor the normalcy of it into other areas of life.

Many humans can’t control the fact they were born in Russia, for example. The reality is there are millions of babies born every day in places they will never find opportunity in. So forgive me if I’m a little averse to the idea of changing one’s biological sex so that they can get through this dreadful life we call America easier. Much less infiltrate our youth sports with clearly superior advantages they were born with by way of their true biological gender.

This is a prime example of one subset of people taking advantage of the kindness and goodwill that is inherent in many of our hearts. It’s anything but logical.

 

The actual removal of male genitalia isn’t the only requirement, there also has to be an equalization of hormone levels as well.

As far as your last sentence goes all I can say is wow! Anyone who would do that has some other things going on that requires serious therapy and medication.

 

So how else does it matter?

It could matter in areas of government or regulations where sex / gender matter, perhaps like Title 9.

 

Well also to look at them naked in the locker room. Gay men do the same in professional sports….

 

Any time you normalize a perverted form of biology, it’s going to affect more than just sports. That we even got to the point where men could compete in women’s athletics like this is scary enough. That means enough people had to look at that and say “hmm, well, there’s nothing wrong with that.” But of course, as illustrated in the OP, there’s obviously something very wrong with it and most intelligent humans could have predicted such a problem long before we got here, but yet somehow, we are here.

Not to mention science is god … until we start talking about becoming a non-binary society. The binary has been confirmed by science. These men should never have been allowed to compete in women’s athletics just based on that alone.

 

You didn’t really answer the question. Apart from sports, if 4 percent of the population decides to identify as the opposite gender (or non binary) what practical impact does it have?

 

Imagine if we normalized flat-eartherism. What if 4 percent of the population demanded everyone to recognize that the Earth is flat? Now imagine if we went along with it. Wouldn’t hurt anyone, right?

 

Yes you’re correct, but the problem is that there are those who believe the Earth is flat, that we didn’t go to the moon, and that Trump won the election. Those things are normalized but no one cares because it doesn’t affect them.

 

How is flat-eartherism being normalized? Don’t try to obfuscate this with Trump. Last I checked, there weren’t any astronomy professors being hired that taught the Earth is flat. Nobody’s kid is winning the science fair with a project that says the Earth is flat.

 

They’re being normalized because we know those people exist, but don’t punish them for their beliefs, or pass laws saying they can’t have those beliefs. You’ve obviously never heard of intelligent design, and alternative science being pushed by the creationists. You’ve also never been to some Christian only charter schools.

 

Like your Pope quote, but would note it's no longer true. Most watches today tell the same time, or vary so slightly as to be insignificant for the purpose of Pope's observation.

 

But we do punish them. If you can find me a professor teaching the Earth is flat at a public university, let me know. Or someone that has won an academic award for pushing the flat Earth theory. They don’t exist, because we as a society reject such falsehoods. We also do not enact laws that are inclusive of a flat earth being a totally viable thing. This doesn’t mean we hunt down flat-earthers and arrest them or ban their right of free speech. It just means we reject their flawed thinking, because of scientific fact.

 

Ha, that is a good point. I was unconsciously counting on old timers to understand meaning of the quote. Actually, I preferred another quote for the same purpose that came from John Locke, but Pope the poet was just so much more concise. Here’s Locke’s version:

“For if the light, which every one thinks he has in his mind, which in this case is nothing but the strength of his own persuasion, be in evidence that it is from God, contrary opinions have the same title to inspirations. Then God will be not only the father of lights but of opposite and contradictory lights, leading men contrary ways; and contradictory propositions will be divine truths, if an ungrounded strength of assurance be an evidence that any proposition is a Divine Revelation.”

 

Okay, so how does that relate to transgender athletes?

 

That we are assigned a gender at conception is a scientific fact. We don’t arrest and imprison ones who think differently, but we sure as hell don’t legitimize it. Allowing someone who was born a male to compete in women’s athletics due to gender Dysphoria (or any other reason) is a direct thumb to the eye of science and should have never been given any legitimacy or traction.