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More than 100 police agencies are pulling out of next month’s DNC

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatorpika, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. mutz87

    mutz87 #restinpowerrbg VIP Member

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    I don't think it's strange at all. This seems to me likely about both covid frustration and the social turmoil in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder, which ignited the protests and rioting across the country. Will likely take time for this frustration/anger to dissipate.
     
  2. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    As far as the gun thing goes, it's purely opportunistic. If guns are widely available then people will make bad decisions and use them when faced with arrest. If they never had the opportunity to get one because it is very difficult, then maybe they grab a knife or maybe they just give up facing 4 police in front of them. I agree with the last bit but take it a step further to say let's try different stuff out in different jurisdictions and see what works. "Defund the Police" is suggesting a course of action and when it gains popular support in an area it locks the politicians into a course of action. So call it "Reform the Police" or something.

    I don't know. They do come into contact with a lot of upset or mentally disturbed people in the course of their job. A dispatcher doesn't really know what's out there other than what they receive from the call in. Statistically most are harmless because they include stuff like property crime but even if one in 1,000 situations turns bad then you have an unarmed bureaucrat trying to run for their life out of that situation. It's not a job I would relish.

    Again, yes crimes generally have been completed when arrests are made by definition. I agree they don't always catch the criminal in progress, but then they do have to go arrest that individual afterward, right? Statistics aren't really a good way to look at this because the outlier is the situation where an officer ends up getting shot at. Just like statistics is a bad way to look at police violence because the outlier is Georgie Floyd getting murdered on the street.

    Agree. And I would add that it's not just a police problem but a political problem. Overpolicing is usually the result of directives from the politicians to show that they are doing something about crime rates. If they can show statistics with more arrests then they have something to point to when running for reelection. So the police make worthless arrests to produce those statistics.
     
  3. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    The amount of money they could get by reducing policing to fight poverty is miniscule though. That's why I said it's a non-starter. If we could put a dent in poverty for the cost of half the police department budget then it would have been done long ago. We agree that policing needs to be reformed, but I disagree that simply taking money out of the department is going to make things better. You are going to have a backlash from the public when no police are available to respond to certain crimes. Building up other agencies to deal with crime that the police aren't taking care of would cost much more money. And it fundamentally doesn't address the core problems in policing, that is training, hiring practices and review of personnel to ensure that psychos aren't walking the streets with murder in their hearts. The focus should be on that and accountability. To allude to what Per Se was saying about other police forces, you can go anywhere in Europe and the police forces perform the same duties as the police currently do here today, so why can't we get our shit together so our forces can do likewise?
     
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  4. mutz87

    mutz87 #restinpowerrbg VIP Member

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    Agree, it would be minuscule. Yet, it wouldn't hurt policing nor those communities. I don't think we're disagreeing on hella much, but the way I think about it is that policing can be compelled to change through law and regulations (which I also think needs much reform). This would help poor communities in the sense that their struggles aren't made harder by policing that seeks to *fix* the problem through aggressive enforcement for lower level crimes and disorder, when despite that aggression, arrests comprise only a small percentage relative to all the crime and disorder that occurs...which is why I wouldn't worry about having less police or less/different approach to law enforcement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  5. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    We want the same thing, I think we just disagree on how to get there. We already have gone through a bunch of points in a few threads so I will just leave it at that.
     
  6. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    I would have 100% supported a mental health expert and counselor responding to calls of crazy people and domestic disputes. That would have lowered my work load.

    When people asked me what most my duties were as a patrol cop I would answer,,,

    Babysit the public.
     
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  7. nolancarey

    nolancarey GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, you have to love how the right loves to characterize the Democrats as both the party of AOC and slavery. You know they are being disingenuous but they get triggered when you call them out on it. They are precious little snowflakes who need to be protected.
     
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  8. nolancarey

    nolancarey GC Hall of Fame

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    Pizza delivery drivers are shot on routine stops. I drove for Domino's in Gainesville and was robbed at gunpoint. In less than a year of employment. I'm guessing most police can't say the same. If people who cart carbs to fraternities and athletes (Dallas Baker shorted me by at least a dollar, but I took the hit because 2006 was a pretty good year for the Gators) can handle the situation I'm sure that the local governments can figure out a plan.
     
  9. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    I'm guessing most pizza delivery people can't say the same either. If there were a high rate of robberies and people getting shot then I am guessing it would be hard to find people to do that. One of my fraternity brothers was shot and killed right behind the house during a robbery. People who might be these new social workers generally don't want to put themselves in that situation, especially if they have a degree that qualifies them to do something else and a family at home.
     
  10. nolancarey

    nolancarey GC Hall of Fame

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    You do realize that pizza delivery is rated as a higher-risk job than police officer, right? People still do it. I did it, and I had a degree with a family at home.
     
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  11. 108

    108 Premium Member

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    6 pages because of the word "defund"?!?
     
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  12. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Just stumbled across this article. A small town in Kentucky tried itself a little experiment too:
    Kentucky town hires social workers instead of more officers - and the results are surprising
    Faced with a tight budget and rising demands on its 17 officer police department, the City of Alexandria in Campbell County tried something different. Instead of hiring an additional officer and taking on the added expenses of equipping that officer, the police chief at the time hired a social worker to respond in tandem with officers.
    . . .
    After four years on the job, Pompilio said there has been a significant drop in repeat 911 calls with approximately 15 percent fewer people going to jail. Now retired, former Alexandria Police Department chief Mike Ward said the results were immediate both for people in need and taxpayers.

    “It was close to a $45,000 to $50,000 annual savings from hiring a police officer the first time to hiring a social worker,” Ward said. “They (police social workers) started solving problems for people in our community and for our agency that we’ve never been able to solve before.”
    . . .
    Alexandria doubled down on its commitment and now employs two full-time social workers to work and respond with its 17 officers.
    -------------------------------------
    Those damn small-town Kentucky libs, man.
     
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  13. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    So they kept the same 17 officers and added two social workers. How did that help the budget?
     
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  14. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    They had to choose between adding an officer or adding a social worker. It was cheaper to add the social worker. And due to the social worker, they ended up saving money. When they had their next opportunity to make a hire, they chose to add a second social worker instead of another officer.
     
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  15. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

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    Trying to minimalize the word "defund" now?
     
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