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More than 100 police agencies are pulling out of next month’s DNC

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatorpika, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. mutz87

    mutz87 #nowaytospinit VIP Member

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    Activists don't think "crime will just disappear." This is a really bad interpretation.

    How police handle crime, however, can have positive effects on the community. And since police already claim to do some of this via community and problem oriented policing, they can if they want to or if compelled to by law, do this as the primary way they police.
     
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  2. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Gun control that works.
     
  3. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    From the first link that came up:

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/09/defund-the-police-what-it-really-means-and-how-it-would-work/

    This is where the expression originated, and the intent most certainly appeared to be to cut out the funding for the police altogether.

    From my perspective, it looks like people are trying to massage the original expression to mean something a little more practical, but that never appeared to be the intent when the expression first came out. It was an emotional overreaction to a bad situation, in my opinion. That people are confused when they see the phrase and that it might be interpreted in a way different than how the user of the term might mean is perfectly understandable. It would probably be most useful to eliminate the expression altogether or reserve it for what the most extreme folks have meant by it.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  4. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Can’t do that with the fringe right. They redefine whatever they don’t like. Like deciding the Democratic Party by “The squad.” So, even though the “Defund” movement has clearly defined goals, they choose to frame it by a dictionary definition, even if that definition is not an aim of the movement. And even explaining it or posting the aims are not enough. Because it is another alternative fact. They are not interested in the truth. They know what it is. It is a waste of time to engage or explain it, except for third parties who might understand. Because the enablers of autocrats are not served by truth. They just want to repeat the talking points.
     
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  5. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    West quoted the article I looked at where the activist group looked forward to the day when people wouldn't have to rob banks. It's in his quote.
     
  6. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    England doesn’t have the 2nd amendment and amount of social issues we have. Nor the population. The US can survive without a single police officer. It wouldn’t be pretty, but we’d survive.

    I’ve not heard that argument. However, most do respond after the fact,

    Police are a deterrent. That’s why so
    Many businesses and apartments complexes want them visiting and living there. Neighbors like it when officers bring their squad cars home.
     
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  7. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    That's why I am saying it's not rational. You take money away from the police and create a new agency of social workers and how do they divide up the work? Who gets the call? Police get shot on simple traffic stops and domestic disturbance calls. Who is going to take the social worker job with no way to defend themselves?
     
  8. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    No armed criminals. They have gun control over there. And no police forces all over the world are going to stop someone they suspect of committing a crime.
     
  9. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    You let the social workers take point with police there as a back-up option. It's plenty rational. It makes perfect sense for people in mental health crises.
     
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  10. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Oh please. This forum is full of threads with people on both sides making fun of the dumb ideas of their rivals. The Squad and those that support them deserve what they get every bit as much as Trump and his supporters. What I dont get is how many people try to defend obviously dumb ideas just because it came from their team. Neither side is always right but some people can't stand that.
     
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  11. mutz87

    mutz87 #nowaytospinit VIP Member

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    Which is a perfectly reasonable and rational want. It was in reference to reinvesting money in the community so that in the future people there will be fewer people engaged in crime. Another way to say it is to find ways to lift people out of poverty.

    Less poverty = Less serious violent and property crime like bank robbery will occur
     
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  12. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    They have gun control, but there are still plenty of guns and gun crimes. It's hardly the case that there are "no armed criminals" in the UK. But regardless, the point is that the lack of armed police officers hasn't led to some kind of lawless anarchy where people commit crimes of all sorts "now that risk is reduced."

    If you want to argue that unarmed police officers would be at a greater risk here than they would be in the UK, I'd buy that. The amount of guns we have here makes life more dangerous for everyone, including the cops. But that's a far cry from proving crime would go up in the US if the cops had fewer guns.

    And no, cops routinely fail to stop ongoing crimes, and the courts have repeatedly held that the police has no duty to protect the citizenry--a fact that is one of the more persuasive arguments often propounded by gun rights advocates.
     
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  13. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I pretty much stopped watching news during the COVID debacle.

    What do you mean by "relatively peaceful?
     
  14. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Sending Social Workers into a volatile or close to volatile situation makes about as much sense as sending a head football coach who is known for being very close to his players to a fraternity house whose members jumped one of his players to de-escalate a fight.

    Didn't work out very well for Ron Zook. Won't work out very well for these social workers or the "back-up" cops who will have to de-escalate the situation by ending the situation.
     
  15. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    I thought the article made it pretty clear what was meant by defunding the police in this section:
    From the website of the people the quote about a police-free future comes from:
    While I disagree with them, I think they have made it pretty clear that they are calling for reallocating funds and shifting burdens away from the police and towards people who are better trained for those tasks.
     
  16. FeeBart

    FeeBart I like When Gators Hit People! VIP Member Trusted GC Insider

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    Meaning no protest is without discomfort for those in opposition
     
  17. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Ron Zook wasn't trained in dealing with situations where he didn't have control. Neither are the police. Social workers are.
     
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  18. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Social workers aren't being sent in to deal with those crises because they're the person's friend. They're being sent in because they're trained to deal with that situation. If you think specialization is an illogical idea, I'm not sure what to tell you. Because that's completely at odds with how everybody else does things. The point of having social workers is because they're trained in deescalation, which is something the police are quite poor at doing.
     
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  19. FeeBart

    FeeBart I like When Gators Hit People! VIP Member Trusted GC Insider

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    Fellas, Britain has armed police. They are special units and half our police force would not qualify for. Crooks do have weapons and they are prosecuted for having them
     
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  20. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I will do some research myself but I would venture to guess that very few social workers have training in de-escalating violent situations. Certainly some do, but the majority would more than likely be trained to leave a situation once it crosses a line. To train and encourage them to remain in dangerous situations would be inviting lawsuits from our ambulance chasing industry. Can't you just hear John Morgan ( well, not John as he cannot practice anymore) railing against the negligence of knowingly sending an unarmed social worker into a volatile situation with a known mentally ill person with a prior history of violence?

    Social workers are great and their work is of tremendous benefit to our communities and society at large. I am no fan of police in much of their current tactics, but asking this of social workers would almost guarantee a dangerous work environment that will soon bring many similar issues to their work that police already bring to theirs.

    No workforce that operates under an umbrella of fear is going to operate effectively.