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mac and mus

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by SeabudGator, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. SeabudGator

    SeabudGator GC Legend

    Apr 23, 2014
    Not looking to relitigate who was worse at UF-everyone (me included) has their opinion of who was worse here. But, Mac took an 1-11 CMU team to 8-4 this year, and is a candidate for the Mizzou job.

    So, the question is: following their UF tenure, which guy will be more successful at a P5 school (CMU doesn't count)?

    We have data on WM at USCjr and the jury is in - that guy pounds a square peg into a round hole longer than a chimp on speed... and yells at the hammer when it doesn't work. He is undeniably a poor P5 head coach, who if hired again, should get an AD fired (the first AD who hired WM had questionable judgement, the second had bad judgment, the third would be an idiot).

    My belief is that JM will be better than WM at a P5 school. He is a good game day coach and smart, but arrogant, weird and not a great leader. Think he might do decent/good at Mizzou (not winning the east but threatening, and likely not having utter failure seasons like WM). I wouldn't hire him as an AD but I think he will get hired.
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  2. your_perfect_enemy

    your_perfect_enemy GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 7, 2010
    For whatever it’s worth, Mac is 2-0 heads up. Ugly games that we should have won by more, microcosm of both their tenures
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  3. fda92045

    fda92045 Senior

    Feb 19, 2012
    Think Mac is a good X-O's guy - I think his attitude is what holds him back. And I don't know if he can put together a good staff because of his attitude.
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  4. fda92045

    fda92045 Senior

    Feb 19, 2012
    He is also very stubborn. You have to be willing adapt as a coach - at UF he wasn't.
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  5. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Whenever this topic comes up I feel like we are debating whats better. Hot Dogs or beef jerky. But the debate is happening while we sit at a table being served Filet mignon.

    Dan's here. Let the kids have the hot dogs and jerky. I'll enjoy my steak.
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  6. WhattaGator

    WhattaGator Ever Vigilant Psycho Mod Moderator VIP Member "Cook Shack Chef"

    OK, Kids, It'ss time for those in Little Orphan Annie's secret club to help her!

    Set your decoder rings to G5, and here are the letters....


    Send in your answers, along with a $ 5 dollar bill to; Little Orphan Annie Code Contest DBA FSWho New Coach Financial, PO Box 12,000,000, Tallacrappy, FL
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  7. gatorfanbill

    gatorfanbill GC Legend

    Feb 7, 2018
    Musmac or Macmus?
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  8. KronoGator

    KronoGator GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 10, 2007
    Both owe UF a lot of money.
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  9. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    So which is worse, just plain bad or really sucks?
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  10. partdopy

    partdopy All American

    Feb 1, 2012
    I don't thing Mcelwain has what it takes to run a big program. I'm sure he can coach, but a HC at a big time program is about a lot, lot more than coaching. He looked lost and his teams didn't seem to progress at all. He seems a good coach for small to mid level schools.

    Muschamp does, he just isn't good at it. His teams at least have an identity, albeit a slow one that doesn't score points. I'm not convinced his methods would work at any level.
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  11. Matthanuf06

    Matthanuf06 GC Hall of Fame

    Sep 13, 2007
    Both would be well below average P5 coaches but not at the Taggart level

    Champ recruits better and his teams are more volatile.

    I’d suspect both finish with similar records if at the same caliber school. But I think they’d do it in different ways. Macs team would be consistently mediocre. Champs team would win a game totally out of the blue every year but would also have an awful loss.
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  12. anstro76

    anstro76 GC Hall of Fame

    Feb 14, 2008
    Mac caused major damage from the inside out. Whatever big conference school that picks him up will scorch their program. After hearing what the players were saying I was so glad he was gone. Heard rumblings that his conditioning program was so poor that players were paying for their own trainers.
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  13. hawaiigator

    hawaiigator All American

    Sep 9, 2018
    I have no love for either. But I honestly think if Muschamp can get out of his own head for a while and make smart decisions he could be better than what he is. Playing not to lose is terrible. But Muschamp at least has passion....maybe the wrong type but passion is like energy, it can’t be destroyed but it can be transformed. If he finds a way to do that he does better than Mac. Mac can go sit in a desert for all I care. He lacked literally every quality of a good head coach. He may be a good X’s And O’s kind of guy but if you lack any sort of motivation, you suck at your job....regardless of what it is. That’s how I feel Mac is.
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  14. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco GC Hall of Fame

    Sep 26, 2011
    Detroit Rock City
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  15. GatorMatt06

    GatorMatt06 GC Legend

    Oct 4, 2008
    Atlanta, GA
    People have so much disdain for Mac because everything structurally was falling apart. Recruiting, S&C, morale, team discipline, assistant coaches, relationship with press and public, etc. Nothing was elite, some things were good, several things were bad and getting worse.

    But IMO there’s no doubt that he somehow just got wins. SEC East was historically down (kinda like when Mizzou won the East) so that had a lot to do with it, but he also pulled some rabbits out of the hat, and no Grier + suspensions were probably the biggest thing to sink his 3rd season.

    To me the big difference between small P5 or G5’s and big P5 programs is that you can’t just outluck and/or outcoach your opponents to winning seasons. You need everything to be operating at a high level because your competition has good coaching and is operating at a high level in those other areas.

    And that’s what sunk Mac, we knew his wins were not sustainable as the East improved and we continued to be mediocre in so many ways behind the scenes. Fortunately the damage was mitigated in a lot of areas due to only 2.5 years of it, but we still lost a lot of ground in that time. Mullen has honestly done more of a miracle here at UF than Mac at CMU because of how much more complicated it is.

    Any good coach can jump into a G5 job and engineer 7-8 wins. Winning at a P5 is much more complicated. Look at Scott Frost for example.
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  16. GatorPlanet

    GatorPlanet GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 15, 2007
    Maitland, FL
    Mac is a pretty good midmajor coach, not an SEC coach. His unimaginative schemes and witless pass routes worked against slow, untalented midmajor defenses but got shut down by the speed and strength of SEC defenses. Musschump understood the big difference but tried to manage it by winning only with defense and a plodding run game. Neither of these guys really gets it at this level.
    Mac 'n' Muss both were watching their recruiting decline in a hurry their last seasons at UF.
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  17. GCNumber7

    GCNumber7 GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    Mac by a mile. He was in over his head here, but he is a good coach in the right setting. Chump is awful anywhere you put him. How he is still a head coach is mind blowing.

    Let’s not forget. Chump inherited a program loaded with NFL talent across the board and one year removed from a top 3 finish. Mac inherited a program that couldn’t run a spring game because we didn’t have enough linemen on the roster.
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  18. GatorPlanet

    GatorPlanet GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 15, 2007
    Maitland, FL
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  19. FusionGator

    FusionGator Senior

    Nov 15, 2015
    Any coach that has a S&C coach that uses VHS Jane Fonda workout tapes as part of their program should not ever be considered for a "better" than another coach survey or even called a college football coach.
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  20. fox

    fox GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    Florida Beachland
    Does Muschamp have a bbq sauce? A dog that can play QB? Wrestle sharks nekkid?

    'nuff said.
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