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Lake 0 ready to Fuel Red Tide Assault

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, May 14, 2021.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    we have had the problems of too much nutrients going into the system for decades which feeds algae blooms and red tide growth. Lake O has been acting like a sponge absorbing all those nutrients but the sponge is full and those 40 -70 years of legacy pollution that has formed the muck layer on the bottom of the lake releases large volumes of nitrogen and phosphorous when it gets stirred up.
     
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  2. Trickster

    Trickster Premium Member

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    I was just getting ready to post that. For decades, this has been bipartisan neglect in service to special interests, aided by northern transplants who care about nothing other than low taxes and plenty of golf courses. As Carl Hiaasen has pointed out in his many books, articles and editorials, Florida has some damn ignorant, selfish and greedy inhabitants.
     
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  3. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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    Sure, but everyone blames farmers and not the real problem.
     
  4. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    Free beer always works. :emoji_beers: How nasty was the water in Winter Haven? I wouldn't go in those lakes, and I skied at Lake Wauburg here in G'ville as well as the Harris chain in Lake County. It's actually better skiing in funky water as the particulates in the water make it easier to control the speed of your speed. Which comes in handy in the slalom course. But I do have my limits.
     
  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Because farmers and ranchers are, by far, the major sources of nitrogen and phosphorous runoff.

    Same thing is happening to the gulf of mexico due too all the nutrient runoff down the mississippi. Massive dead zone on GOM gets bigger every year
     
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  6. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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    The runoff from golf courses, lawns, and the streets of Orlando all funnel down to Lake Kissimmee, but it is easier to point at someone else.
     
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  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    it's easier, and more accurate to place water quality testing stations at points of discharge and quantify the KG of nitrogen and phosphorous contribution from each source. That ahs been done and it ahs been empirically proven that the great majority of the nutrient volumes are coming from farms and ranches. I can tell you that for the last 20 + years that every development that had to be permitted (everything above 10 acres or 2 acres of impervious, aka 10/2 rule) has to document that post development runoff must be less than pre-development runoff. All that new development has stormwater management systems designed and built to remove nutrients and suspended solids. Ag is exempt. Ag/cattle is the biggest part of the problem and is what fed all the aquatic growth that died and became the muck layer at the bottom of Lake O.

    see pages 36 - 37 for runoff concentrations from various land uses and then recognzie that development (residnetial, golf courses, commercial, etc) typically have stormwater collection systems designed for nutrient removal. Pastures, row crops, etc do not. The land uses that generate the most nitrogen and phosphorous per acre, and occupy the majority of the acres in the basin, have none, nada, zero, water quality systems in place. Now throw in the fact that wastewater plants first neutralize their effluent sludge (kill all the life in the sludge) and then do land use application (drive around the farm field or pasture and spray the sludge out) with little to no reporting requirements, and you ahve lots of pastures and farms that are polluting even worse than the data that Harvey Harper gathered because they excluded areas that were actively doing land use application. WHy do muni's still do land use application? Because it is the cheapest way to dispose of sludge and people don't want their water/sewer bills to go up

    PROPOSED SCOPE OF SERVICES PHASE I: PRELIMINARY DESIGN (florida-stormwater.org)

    upload_2021-5-15_23-13-40.png

    upload_2021-5-15_23-14-42.png
     
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  8. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    The Winter Park Chain of Lakes was (and probably still is) totally polluted because of runoff from lawns as well. The most expensive lakes in Orlando were sewers. There probably was poisoning from septic tanks as well. Back in the 30's and 40's pretty much nobody considered the adverse effects and probably didn't care anyway. I've boated and done appraisals on that chain and it's just sickening.
     
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  9. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    That's almost exactly what I was going to say about this. :emoji_nerd:
     
  10. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    and the cattle population has increased substantially over that time while slowly poisoning Lake O. It is called legacy pollution for a reason, it was deposited there by prior generations

    read and learn something if you want to

    Why Florida’s toxic algae crisis is worse than people realize (tampabay.com)

    The amount of phosphorus entering Lake Okeechobee today is roughly the same as it was in 2001, when the state ordered what would have amounted to a 70 percent reduction by 2015.

    Agricultural runoff is the source of three-quarters of it, according to state data.
    [​IMG]

    One of the most vexing challenges posed by phosphorus is that it forms a strong chemical bond with soil and only a small portion is released at any given time, usually with heavy rainfall. It could be decades or even centuries before all the phosphorus in the agricultural basin washes into Lake Okeechobee.

    The bottom of the lake, which was sandy for thousands of years, is blanketed with millions of tons of black muck containing an estimated 50,000 metric tons of phosphorus. Nobody knows how to remove or neutralize it.



     
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  12. slightlyskeptic

    slightlyskeptic All American

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    You are correct sir. And at least Bob Graham admits it.........

    Bob Graham's Confession: I Failed You - Bullsugar.org

    "Confronted with a litany of catastophic failures and violations of the public trust, from letting a sugarcane lobbyist rewrite Florida’s water pollution policies to commiting taxpayers’ land to sugarcane growers, SFWMD board members not only refused to accept responsibility for the national crises and scandals that exploded on their watch, but actually defied Gov. Ron DeSantis’ request for their resignations.

    Days later, the Hon. Bob Graham did something remarkable. He took personal responsibility for not doing more to prevent the disasters that SFWMD policy allowed to unfold this year. And last year. And the year before that… With a chance to reshape Florida’s water management at the federal level Graham says he didn’t get it done, and that bothers him today. When was the last time you heard anything like this from a politician?"
     
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  13. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    While Florida is better known for its oranges and sugarcane, about half its agricultural land is devoted to cattle ranching. Last year, the state had close to a million beef cows and more than 100,000 milk cows, ranking it 13th in the nation.

    The heart of the cattle industry lies in the Kissimmee River basin, which serves as the headwaters of the Everglades. The basin stretches from just south of Orlando down to Lake Okeechobee, about 95 miles. The Kissimmee River is the lake’s largest tributary and accounts for most of the phosphorus it receives.
     
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  14. slightlyskeptic

    slightlyskeptic All American

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    ......and DeSantis is trying to do something about it.

    Surprising Everyone, Florida’s New Republican Governor Orders Sweeping Environmental Reform


    On Thursday, Desantis signed an executive order to tackle the myriad environmental problems facing the state from toxic algae to sea level rise to Everglades degradation. He also asked for the resignation of all board members of Florida’s most powerful water management district, which has come under fire for leasing parts of the Everglades needed for restoration to the sugar industry just after November’s election. In doing so, Desantis immediately cleared the incredibly low bar of “doing better than Rick Scott,” though there are still details that need to be sussed out to determine just how much oomph the new policies will have.

    The biggest ticket item on DeSantis’ environmental executive order was to score $2.5 billion over the next four years for Everglades protection and restoration. Among the litany of other directives, the order also includes the creation of an algae task force to deal with the state’s persistent toxic blooms, taking actions to “adamantly oppose” offshore drilling and fracking, and appointing a chief science officer and Office of Resilience and Coastal Protection “to help prepare Florida’s coastal communities and habitats for impacts from sea level rise.”

    “It’s bold to see recommendations of this magnitude coming two days after you see a new gov inaugurated,” Julie Wraithmell, executive of the Florida Audubon Society, told Earther. “These are solutions we’ve known about but haven’t had the political will to do. I’m very encouraged by not just what he said but how he said it. This clearly a big priority for him and his entire administration.”
     
  15. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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    It has been that way for a long time, but there for 30 years there was no red tide. So blaming it on agriculture seems wrong.
     
  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    red tide is naturally occurring and here every year. The difference over the last decade is that Lake O cannot absorb anymore and is shedding nitrogen and phosphorous and that feeds the red tide and makes it much worse. Went out to one of my favorite passes today. Two weeks ago, lots of bait, lots of fish. Today, dead fish on beaches, no bait to be seen, got skunked for the first time in a long time. No snook, ladyfish, bonita, spanish mackerel, trout, redfish etc to be seen. Same place I landed 9 fish in two hours two weeks ago didn't get a hit today. This is along an area with some of the most prolific turtle nesting beaches around. The evidence is all there (documented in multiple ways by several different entities) that shows where the nutrients are coming from, you just don't want to acknowledge it. That seems wrong. One thing to be uninformed, a whole different thing to remain willfully ignorant of facts just because you don't like them.
     
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  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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  18. saltygator

    saltygator VIP Member

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    @G8trGr8t , thanks for keeping this thread updated. as a part-time, amateur/professional angler over on the gulf coast, this is something I try to pay close attention to and support in whatever way I can.
     
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  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    @Davis Island this weekend for sons sailing regatta. Any tips on areas to shore fish. Got artificials and time to kill.