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Lake 0 ready to Fuel Red Tide Assault

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, May 14, 2021.

  1. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree

    Except it goes back a bit further in my opinion.

    But recall - Dixiecrat Democrats of the 60's are now the the Matt Gaetz REPUBS of the present. I could care less what a POS Politician labels themselves, or what party they affiliate with, it's what they create, legislate and how they handle it that matters.

    Really it's what are the Fed's, state and local Gov'ts going to do about it?

    ANSWER: Not a DAMN thing!
    Not until Floridians get tired of swimming in shit and vote accordingly.
    DeSantis and the State run GOP will continue to allow the Sugar Industry "carte blanch" like always.
     
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  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    stop the pollution from leaving the farms and ranches - require ranches and big ag to meet real limits on nitrogen and phosphorous content in stormwater discharge.
    rehab Lake O like they did Lake Apopka - got to get all of that muck off of the bottom of the lake so the sand filter underneath actually has ability to allow water to flow through it
    stop farms from discharging to STA's - they quit backpumping into Lake ) and just let their water gravity flow to the storage areas that were built to take water from Lake O but are now filled up with runoff water from the sugarcane fields
    create better flowways to the south
    lower Lake O levels during the dry season

    edit...eliminate sugar subsidies
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  3. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    If we had people in state government ready to fight for the right solutions, maybe that would change.
     
  4. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    it isn't just sugar, tens of thousands of caws crap runs into the Kissimmee River every time it rains. Mormon Church is major rancher

    Polluted by Politics – Investigative Reporting Workshop

    The state has passed laws and spent hundreds of millions of dollars on water treatment projects to reduce the phosphorus flowing into the lake. But it continues unabated, according to a review of state water-monitoring data by Weather.com and the Investigative Reporting Workshop.

    The amount of phosphorus entering Lake Okeechobee today is roughly the same as it was in 2001, when the state ordered what would have amounted to a 70% reduction by 2015. Analyses of state data show agricultural runoff is the source of three-quarters of it.

    In March, the legislature tackled the algae problem again when it passed the Clean Waterways Act of 2020. But the new law, like the 2001 law, does little to address agricultural runoff.

    [​IMG]

    But land-use analyses and state water-monitoring data reviewed by Weather.com and the Investigative Reporting Workshop show that between 73 percent and 87 percent of the phosphorus going into the lake comes from agricultural lands rather than urban runoff, septic tanks or other sources.
     
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  5. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Zero political will / dream on
     
  6. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Biden doesn't need DeSantis to tell him how to make ACOE or DEP address the problem. Those are federal agencies under his control
     
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  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    fyi, they already have enough data to know the problem, the games they are playing and the $$ they are wasting are just another part of the kick the can down the road game.

    But land-use analyses and state water-monitoring data reviewed by Weather.com and the Investigative Reporting Workshop show that between 73 percent and 87 percent of the phosphorus going into the lake comes from agricultural lands rather than urban runoff, septic tanks or other sources.

    Polluted by Politics – Investigative Reporting Workshop

    How Florida’s farm runoff is regulated today
    Under the new legislation, ranchers and farmers outside the Everglades Agricultural Area are basically guided by the 2001 law. They’re required only to say they’ll abide by best management practices, such as rotational grazing, digging ditches and putting up fences to keep cattle out of waterways.

    The Agriculture Department conducts site visits, but the agency has only 25 inspectors for 11,000 enrolled farms, so farms can go years without a visit. No water testing occurs. Those who don’t abide by their promises can be referred to the Department of Environmental Protection for investigation and enforcement. But no such referral has been made and the state has not sanctioned any producer under the program.

    Last May, a workshop was held for new members of the board of the South Florida Water Management District. State officials were there to explain how the Best Management Practices program works. To some of them, it sounded like “self-regulation,” as one put it.

    “There’s an elephant in the room,” said Scott Wagner, a Miami-based maritime attorney who sits on the board. “We have no water enforcement component to this.”
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Biden is a politician. If state leaders aren't pressuring him to do anything and the big corporate interests don't want it, what do you think will happen? Biden has already shown that when Democratic leaders and the base push back on something, he's willing to move in that direction. Dramatically increasing the refugee cap is an example of that.

    I can't promise that Democratic leaders will fix it if they're put in charge. But I can promise that the environment is a bigger part of this party's platform and they're more likely to be receptive, especially if the base and local leaders are pushing for it. And the federal government is more likely to work in concert with the state if state leaders are pressuring them to do something about it.

    I don't know need to quote the old insanity cliché. I'll just say that 20+ years of nothing getting done should indicate to you that a change is needed. I'll stand beside you in fighting for this. I know a lot of Republicans and Democrats who feel the same. I simply don't believe Republican truly leaders care. Will a Democrat? Well, I think it's worth finding out.
     
  9. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    And let's even put this in more cynical terms, @G8trGr8t, if Biden puts political capital and effort into solving this problem, who is going to benefit? Well, DeSantis is Governor of Florida. If it gets addressed on his watch, it's going to strengthen him ahead of 2022 and 2024. I hate to put it in those terms, but that also is likely a consideration, especially when DeSantis and Florida R's aren't putting any pressure on him to do anything.
     
  10. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Very interesting read and complex problem. Question: what bird is it that you mention? I didn’t see it in my reading of the article. And Lake O used to be a sand bottom lake? Whoa!
     
  11. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    My specialty isn’t red tide solutions. It doesn’t pay to help the environment. I’m employed to convert the environment into cool stuff you can use to make your life more fabulous. That’s where the money is.

    However it does sound like the perfect problem for big government to mobilize and address. IMO.
     
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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    so democrats make decisions on what is best to do based on political calculus and not what is right. same as pubs. same coin, different sides. primary objective is to remain in power, everything else be damned.
     
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  13. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Welcome to politics. Difference is what their priorities are, how they work to achieve them, and who is able to pressure them into action. You've seen Ben's posts. And he's probably right. Democrats want government to do things. Republicans don't (except when government is fighting their little culture wars). Accordingly, a Democratic government is more likely to be receptive and moved by its base to action, especially on environmental issues.

    Would I like to change politics? Absolutely. But other people don't seem to care enough to do anything about it.
     
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  14. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    two things. One is the kite and that limits the lowering of lake to 0.5' per month. they like to nest at waters edge, water too high, nest dies, water too far from nest, nest dies

    Corps stops releases from lake to St. Lucie River | South Central Florida Life

    Kelly said the recession rate matters because they try to keep the lake from dropping too quickly to protect the ecosystem for the endangered species that live in the lake’s marshes. A slow recession of lake level is natural during the dry season.
    For example, Everglades Snail Kites nest at the water line, Kelly said. They like their nests there right on the water. “If they build the nest and the water recedes, they are left high and dry,” and their nests are more vulnerable to predators, he explained.

    second is uplands being flooded if water flows south. uplands that is traditional nesting areas of a certain subpopulation of the Cape Sable seaside sparrow. this should help

    U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service denies request to open water control structures early to let more water flow south | South Central Florida Life
     
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  15. surfin_bird

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    Florida is seeing the same issue California has been dealing with since the 1870's Although in reverse. Out here water is money. Businesses and greed, and political power are more important than any tree/fish/bird. And the state studies the problem and never implements real change. Water's not for drinking, its for fighting. Water flows toward the money. Trumps' speeches to central valley farmers (big Ag) were strongly against any protection of the environment. Who cares if you wipe out an entire species or ecosystem (or planet) if you make money while doing it. That is the Republican's Party line.
     
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  16. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Ah yeah, the snail kite. They do exist down there - had a colleague that monitored them back in the day. Lots of conflicting needs to feed into the decision matrix. The wood stork needs are somewhat similar though for feeding. I can remember when water levels got too high at Corkscrew Sanctuary meant a bad nesting year for that species - my memory is hazy but seems like they left the area entirely for a while.
     
  17. surfin_bird

    surfin_bird Junior

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    I remember hearing stories in the 1980's about not getting your hands wet (i.e., without gloves) when collecting water quality samples in Lake O. I never collected samples there, but did water quality sampling at Sea World, Busch Gardens, and Cypress Gardens. Busch Gardens was the best, we removed/pumped algae-muck from the alligator exhibit, and collected a bunch of gator teeth. And the free beer. Good times.
     
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  18. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Pubs arent in charge in Cali. Libs scream about water but whine like babies if you ask them to pay rates sufficient to fund the plants and pipes to do RO plants and reclaimed water systems. They will pay more for tv and internet than they will for water/sewer
     
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  19. surfin_bird

    surfin_bird Junior

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    True that California is liberal/dem in the metro areas but in the central valley, imperial valley/sierras the state leans more Republican. I'm also not sure if it is just the whiney baby liberals that fight rate increases. I think that is universal. Right now a big state push is getting drinking water to disadvantaged communities (i.e., to rural areas). And getting a handle on over drafted groundwater basins.
     
  20. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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    We did not have these problems, until Orlando bloomed. Maybe you are pointing at the wrong problem.
     
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