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Kugel already on 1st round NBA radar

Discussion in 'Nuttin but Net' started by oneatatime, Nov 12, 2023.

  1. rserina

    rserina GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    Ringwood, NJ
    Well, he sure as heck hasn't played the point guard at Boston College, San Francisco, or Florida, including three games without Pullin where our only serviceable backup was Aberdeen. Don't you think they would have experimented with him in that situation, at least against Loyola and FAMU, before Pullin returns?
     
  2. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    With all due respect, I don’t need to go off of what was done or why didn’t this or that coach do something. I am experienced enough at basketball to make an on the spot assessment of a players abilities. I’ve been playing PG since I was 7, and I am 45 now. I still play in men’s basketball leagues year round. I’ve pretty much played basketball nonstop my whole life. I’m no star or basketball genius, but I know the game.
     
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  3. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 GC Hall of Fame

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  4. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Um.

    Didn't read OGT, but what is going on with 2?

    Seems like he was trying to let the game come to him, but it caused him to be lazy(er?). He was a TO machine for a stretch there in the second half.

    I hope he finds a way to fit in with this squad. If he gels and starts balling within the flow, jeesum this team....
     
  5. toprowgator

    toprowgator All American

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    He looks lost. Like he doesn't fit in with the rest of the team.
     
  6. GatorPlanet

    GatorPlanet GC Hall of Fame

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    He needs to get on the same page, and fast. He's too good a player to let ego dictate his role, and the scouts are watching.
     
  7. iam4uf

    iam4uf GC Hall of Fame

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    This season might be the most important of Kugel's NBA career. If he doesn't learn how to fit in with other talented teammates now, it might be difficult to learn that, or maybe get the opportunity, once drafted.
     
  8. rserina

    rserina GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    Ringwood, NJ
    I don't get all the Kugel criticism. It's insane. The guy has been dominant defensively. Our best on ball defender statistically. He can defend three positions and flat smothers people with his length, strength, and athleticism. Yes, he's struggled picking his spots offensively, but he was terrific in the first half yesterday. Only took three shots, and made two. Didn't force anything. Let the game come to him. Was great on the glass. He got a little sloppy in the second half, driving into a congested paint and making some ill-advised passes. He wasn't alone in that regard.

    But it feels like people have exaggerated expectations for him. He is having to figure out an entirely new role working with a new set of players. We are much further along offensively than I thought we would be and aren't nearly as dependent upon him as expected. That's a good thing. That dude will eventually findh is rhythm, just like he did last year, and is going to be our key piece later this season because he has that rare ability to do it all: get to the rim, draw fouls, shoot off the bounce or catch on the perimeter, and create for others.
     
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  9. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    Unfair criticism? Okay. I just disagree. He was great against a meh (or less) Loyola-MD team. Against a damn well coached UVa defense (and offense), he and others just could not figure out how to solve it. BUT, did he do "the defense", a la Loyola? Nope. Not close. He pouted.

    Now, against FSU. That was a FUN game to watch and behold all the new pieces. What did he do, besides miss shots around the rim and not dish it out to the open 3-shooter? He made lazy passes that resulted in layups for FSU. AND he did not get any himself. Again, they were not a Loyola-level team. Will he be given the time to get up to speed? Sure, that IS what the pre-conference games are for, especially those teams that are not "made-for-TV." But once the conference games begin and the Richard-Pullin-Clayton model gains a lot of traction, his time MAY be reduced because it will now be about winning games against some damn good teams.

    I will watch to see if or when his lightbulb turns on. But he IS trending towards the "Reeves" mentality.
     
  10. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Kugel is much more athletic and has far more skill than Reeves. Your point is still valid, that he needs to find a way to get it going with this roster - it's just that kugel has all the ability and tools to make that happen, while Reeves was more limited and less capable of turning it around.

    If, and it's a big if, Kugel does go Reeves on us this year, does that fall on CTG?
     
  11. ocalaman

    ocalaman GC Hall of Fame

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    Through 4 games, Riley Kugel is averaging 13 ppg., shooting 38.8%, 23.5% shooting 3's. He's 10-14 from the free throw line, 3.5 rebounds per game, has 1 blocked shot, 8 steals, 7 assists and 12 turnovers. He has the lowest field goal percentage on the team, with Haugh & Aberdeen next at 42.9%. He, also, has the lowest 3-point percentage on the team, with Clayton next at 30%. He's our 6th best rebounder, 3rd in scoring average, 1st in steals, 3rd in assists and leads the team in turnovers. Not exactly star-quality, NBA 1st round numbers so far, IMO.
    He doesn't need to be THE star of the team, just needs to do his part and let the game come to him and quit getting himself into no win situations where he either has to take a wild shot or make an impossible pass. His athletic ability and overall talent is tremendous. Just needs to play within himself and all will be fine.
     
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  12. fox

    fox GC Hall of Fame

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    12 points a game without trying to score 20, cutting down turnovers, and we're good.
     
  13. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    12 points shooting/driving the ball. An additional 6 points picking off a pass at the top of the key and laying the ball up. When those opportunities manifest.
     
  14. rserina

    rserina GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    Ringwood, NJ
    So, was the lightbulb not turned in conference play last year? Did he suddenly become a different player? Or did dynamics change around him that he has to adjust to? Or, I don't know, maybe a four-game sample at the start of a new season isn't indicative of a player's direction.

    And I don't even know what a Reeves mentality even means. He has defended at a much higher level than Reeves, had the offense run through him far more than Reeves ever did, and been far more productive and consistent in his freshman year than Reeves was at any point in his two seasons here. Reeves was almost always out of control and inefficient. When Kugel plays poorly, it's normally that he doesn't finish plays (passes, shots in the paint) with decisiveness and urgency. But it's seldom playing out of control or wildly.

    And let's definitely take shots at him and say he "pouted." Man, we love to eat our own.
     
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  15. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    We don't "eat our own", we use our own brains. You want to win your argument and that is fine. Reeves ended his freshman campaign trending up. He thought (IMO) that with a good to great sophomore season, he would be ready to "test the market" in earnest. He got shaky early in the season and then he began to press...BADLY. His own mind told him he was Superman and he just needed to "tweak his game some". Or, he was in a "hold my beer" brain fart contest with Fudge. And now, he is a reclamation project. It is what it is.

    Now, does this profile fit Kugel to a T? Not yet. BUT, he is pressing AND he pouts when things aren't going as well as he - and others - believe he should be against any and all competition. No one is giving up on him. BUT, we have a really nice thing going with Richard/Pullin/Clayton. And if he continues to press and pout, Golden will be forced to limit him during the real season beginning in January. And then it is entirely plausible that when he gets in to "get things back to normal" - just like Reeves did - the results may indeed be similar. We shall see.
     
  16. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    I don’t buy the pouting crap, but I do believe that Riley is forcing too many shots instead of playing within a team framework.
     
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  17. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 8, 2007
    Florida
    Kugel letting press clippings and expectations impact play on offense. Playing good D but weakness now offensively
     
  18. toprowgator

    toprowgator All American

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    Yeah, I'm curious to see how things play out with him.
     
  19. SeabudGator

    SeabudGator GC Legend

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    Lot’s more people on here talk directly to Kugel than I thought. They know:
    - he is pressing himself
    - he is pouting
    - his press clippings have gotten to him
    - he thinks he’s Superman and is trying to live up to that
    - his ego dictates his role

    That psychologist’s couch where kugel tells everyone everything must be big!

    Or maybe it’s just a 4 game sample from a still young kid playing with all new teammates. Maybe TG knows teams game plan for him and has told him to feed the open guy based on them shading him and his turn will come?

    It has not been pretty for RK over 4 games but it is way premature to start calling him a bust. Coming off the bench might help him but that is still no bust.
     
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  20. rserina

    rserina GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    Ringwood, NJ
    Just completely out of the flow. None of his shots come directly off passes, relatively few off screens, most are standstill jumpers, maybe off the bounce. It’s not like we aren’t moving the ball, either. It was zipping around the court last night.