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Koch Network rebuke of Trump and Dumb Populism

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by BLING, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    RINO's.

    But seriously, I view the Koch's as RESPONSIBLE for this mess... not 100%, but substantially. They have mislead those on the right for so long with partisan misinformation that they themselves funded. Now they want to present themselves as "problem solvers"? Nice words I guess, but they wring a tad hollow. Just as recently as 2016 they were trying to scam Florida's voters on the solar amendment (and I doubt they have ceased similar shady political activities in the meantime).

    I guess we'll see if they put their money where their mouths are going forward. But it would be better if we just got rid of "Citizens' United" and got dirty money like theirs out of politics entirely.

    Koch network: We're rejecting partisanship in favor of problem solving - CNN

     
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  2. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Koch is all about buying influence and he couldn't with Trump. If you remember he stayed out of the presidential race in 2016 (or at least that's the last I heard). He was also supporting the Ted Cruz wing of the party and this populist thing is something that nobody who had influence wanted. Support for populism comes from the people by definition, not the established elite class or those with influence. It's when things are perceived to be really bad and some idiot steps forward with magical solutions that will supposedly fix everything and people believe him. The same phenomena crosses parties as Bernie and Warren are appealing to the same people that Trump appealed to with different solutions to turn things around for the working class.
     
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  3. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist Premium Member

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    This may sound weird, but I’ve never found the Koch’s to be particularly partisan. They are very idealological, but they don’t care who you are. If you support their definition of freedom, they are good with you. Trump does not seem like the kind of candidate they would support. (Though neither does Hillary.)
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Extremely Online Premium Member

    Trump is the kind of candidate they can make peace with though. The Kochs would definitely make peace with fascists, as long as they kept workers from organizing and empowered bosses, because that's what freedom means to them. If they had to chose between fascism that owns the libs/left vs. a truly free and democratic society where everyone is empowered they'd choose the former every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
     
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  5. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist Premium Member

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    I didn’t have this impression of them. I need to look into them more maybe.
     
  6. grumpygator77

    grumpygator77 GC Legend

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    Pay particular attention to the paragraph that pertains to FSU and what control the Kochs wanted over the economics program and it's hiring of professors.

    Why the Koch Brothers Are Funding Colleges - The Atlantic
     
  7. wgbgator

    wgbgator Extremely Online Premium Member

    Most libertarian types are opponents of democracy, if not downright hostile to it. Peter Thiel has publically made the argument that freedom (as they conceive it) is incompatible with democracy.

    This book is probably a good place to start:

     
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  8. staticgator

    staticgator All American

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    Exactly. The Kochs are all-in with Trump. Mike Pence has long been one of their favorites as well as Zinke (RIP), Price (RIP), Tillerson (RIP), Pruitt (RIP), Haley (RIP), and Pompeo.

    While it may seem that Trump's populism is at odds with the Kochs' agenda, it is actually a perfect marriage. GOP "populism" is a formula to get the base excited/agitated about nonsensical cultural issues so they will vote for politicians whom once they assume office will 100% focus on tax cuts for millionaires and deregulation for big business. Think about what has Trump actually accomplished for his populism? Nothing! It's just empty calories for his fairly conventional Republican agenda.
     
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  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Extremely Online Premium Member

    Even if the Kochs think abortion & drugs should be legal, or gay marriage legal, or that racism is bad, they can live with social conservativism because they are wealthy enough to where none of the results will affect them. If for some reason they want drugs or an abortion they can get it, they're rich. As long as they get their deregulation, low taxes and a disempowered, compliant workforce, they're good.
     
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  10. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist Premium Member

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    Thanks grump.

    I’m still not convinced that they are evil. The Atlantic clearly has their view on this matter, and the basic idea of the free market is about success at all levels (even if it has become seemingly intertwined with elitism today). Trying to influence hiring is a bit excessive I would say, but if I donated money for an institute to hire evolutionary biologists, for example, it probably wouldn’t seem as strange.

    They might be awful people, but most of the argument that I’ve seen for that, is from the same perspective.
     
  11. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist Premium Member

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    Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll have to admit that since the second kid, my reading list is going SLOW, but I will throw it on there.

    My reading as of now isn’t that libertarianism is against democracy, but they might view government voting as secondary to economic and social voting. While being able to the president is better than not, being able to pick your job and school is the most directly related to empowerment.

    And the Kochs did support amendment 4.

    Koch-funded group supports voting rights for felons in Florida
     
  12. grumpygator77

    grumpygator77 GC Legend

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    Evil or not, I'm no fan of billionaires giving "donations" for control of who is hired, what is taught, and how it's taught in Public universities.
     
  13. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist Premium Member

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    It does sound crazy, but from my knowledge of universities, there is no way that the Koch’s were allowed to choose hires without the consent of the current faculty.

    It is probably more similar to the way that endowed chair positions work, where faculty choose the hires and the benefactor determines the appropriateness of the person to take the chair.
     
  14. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The ignoring of "dumb populism" by those with wealth and power is what brings about the need for revolution from time to time


    which is EXACTLY why they want your guns.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  15. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    Must be nice to be so all-knowing that one knows more about another than the other knows themselves.
     
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  16. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Not my fault that so many choose to ignore thousands of years of history which proves this to be true......a lesson that was manifested in the words that created this nation on July 4, 1776
     
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  17. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    So people born over 250 years ago know more about what people think who were born 250+- years later??? Wow, I'm totally impressed with their clairvoyant skills. :D:D:D

    Those old guys knew, in 1776, EXACTLY why they want your guns in in the year 2019. :rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D
     
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  18. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    So it's safe to say that you fully believe that what is best for the corporate globalists and international financiers is what is best for everyone else?

    That a rising tide lifts all boats.....dare I say, trickle down?
     
  19. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    You may be confusing "partisanship" with "discrimination". I mean if you say they are "very ideological", I would say that pretty much is the same thing as saying they were very partisan.

    They were very partisan, along ideological lines... and they certainly spread lies and misinformation to the right and in general. But yeah, they do seem to part ways with the Trumpista GOP of race baiting and debasement of politics. While the Koch's may not have ever appealed to those lowest common denominators, they certainly painted the "other side" with a very broad brush - and made reaching across the isle a very difficult thing with Republicans over the past 10 years. Basically, they were in sync with the Grover Norquests of the world - the "pledge" Republicans, which might as well have been a pledge to do nothing.
     
  20. wgbgator

    wgbgator Extremely Online Premium Member

    Seems like they've got a good handle on the rubes, they got their tax cuts from the "dumb populists" who voted in Republicans and Trump and a Supreme Court that will do their bidding for decades. They don't give a damn about guns. They can buy a private army.