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It's not the coach, it's about making shots

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by KAGator67, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. 33hoop

    33hoop VIP Member

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    Billy took Florida to the championship game in his 4th season. It was easy to see he was building the program. This is White’s fifth season and it isn’t looking upward. The same bad offense has plagued the team in every season he has coached at Florida. Next year or the years that follow are going to be any different with him coaching here. The White experiment needs to end.
     
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  2. tundragator

    tundragator GC Legend

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    It’s about the coach
     
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  3. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I am not interested in debating, but we now have the ability to look at Billy’s career thru a different lens than in 2004.At that time, there were a lot of of people suggesting billy “couldn’t win in March”; that he was simply a good recruiter and that his run was one that could have, and arguably should have ended in the opening round. More than once I heard the argument that if not for the miracle win over butler, Billy would have advanced out of the opening weekend once in nine years.
    Much as I’ve done recently, I argued in support of the coach- though a bit less diplomatically back then. I’ve told the story before, but it was one such argument that got me banned as “gatorhoops2000”, and resulted in the not-so-subtle “aka” reincarnation.
    All this said, I do not think Mike will be the next Billy. I don’t think the program will ever see another Billy. He will go down among the college games greatest coaches. But I feel the same now as I did in 2004.... Florida is not the job some people think it is, mostly due to general basketball apathy in the region. And so when people ask, should Florida be a “learn on the job” position.... my answer is “YES!”.
    Billy very much learned on the job and evolved tremendously as a coach. There were frustrating and under-achieving years (though not to this degree) that we’re part of the process. But the process was ultimately very rewarding.
    Now, I know the argument is that Mike inherited a much different program. I only somewhat agree. Why? Because I very much think Florida basketball was almost exclusively tied to Donovan. Unlike.the blue blood schools, there was the palpable perception when Billy left that Florida’s great run was over.... and this was before any hiring decision was made.
    Billy was Florida.... but more aptly, Florida was Billy.
    So I’m not sure what Mike inherited outside expectations set by a legend.
    And so I think Florida remains a spot perfect for a coach like Mike White.... and vice versa. He is a relatively young coach who has a strong reputation, is recruiting well and running a clean program. Yes- he absolutely has a learning curve as a coach, but I still think the payoff can and will be great.
    My big caveat to this... and why i said this is an important year for mike... is negative recruiting. I really think a failed season could give very damaging ammunition to the idea that mike can not succeed with these high level players, nor help them succeed. And that, more than anything, could be his demise.
    I obviously hope not, as unlike most... I really think he is a great coach for this program, even if not a “great coach” at the moment.
    All that said, i understand the other side of the debate and am not going to fault a different opinion. The only ones that irk now are those who seem to relish is “being right” or the posters who seemingly are not interested in basketball until there is something to bitch about. It’s amazing how many fans we have when we lose.
    Well, that’s all I got.
    Go Gators!
     
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  4. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    Well said! Thanks!

    The last time I felt like I did after our loss on Saturday may have been when my son and I walked out of the NIT game with Penn State in the Donovan years. But even then I believed things would change. I still feel like White can turn things around and I have patience but I do understand the frustration a lot of people feel.
     
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  5. 33hoop

    33hoop VIP Member

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    That shows how many want to have a good basketball team. I 100% disagree that Florida is a learn on the job position. Donovan made it better than that. Before Donovan, yes it was a learn on the job position but to consider it that now is to accept that the program has taken a huge step backwards. I, and many fans don’t accept that because Billy left that Florida is lucky to get a mid major mediocre coach. The program is much better than that. I hope our AD knows we are better than that too. Florida basketball deserves a better coach than Mike White.
     
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  6. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Florida DID take a huge step back ... the moment its HOF coach resigned. To deny that is just silliness. Florida is not Kansas, Duke, or Kentucky. It was not going to seamlessly transition from the ONLY coach in its history who recorded any measure of sustained success, let alone win titles.
    I didn’t say Florida is “lucky to get a mid major coach”. I said that I feel mike is great for the position and vice versa.
    I’ve asked this before when these discussions come up and I rarely get an answer. . . who were you hoping Florida was going to hire at the time?
    I was very much on record during the process that I ether wanted White or Mack. (The latter was supposedly not interested)....so I was happy with the hire.
    Who was on your list?
     
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  7. SeabudGator

    SeabudGator GC Hall of Fame

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    This doesn’t feel anything like the Donovan era to me. Billy got better players and the program got better. Sure there were losses in the lose one and out tourney, but anybody could see the trajectory. Billy just needed to mature as a game day coach.

    We have seen none of that with Mike. even worse, while the talent has improved our team has gotten worse. I would be stunned if he got fired but we need to make serious progress next year.

    Great coaches make average players good and good players look great. sometimes you lose a game because you miss a shot or “the shots just weren’t falling.“ but when you consistently hook up shots at the end of the shot clock because your offense is so stale and late getting started, that is coaching.

    Final question I have for everyone - have you seen any changes from white that make you think he is innovating, trying different schemes, or capable of getting better results from these players?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  8. Matthanuf06

    Matthanuf06 GC Hall of Fame

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    The problem with this logic is you’d never fire a coach. Sure White could learn and become great. But by that logic couldn’t virtually every coach? Every coach had some positive quality to get them the job in the first place...so one could focus on that in perpetuity

    The reality is for every coach that learns like Billy (although Billy was much much much more successful at this point than White) there are dozens of coaches who continue to fail. Just because we hit the lotto once doesn’t mean we keep playing
     
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  9. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Not really.
    I don’t think all coaches have the attributes to learn and be great. I don’t think we retained billy on a whim or hope to be lucky— but saw a drive, work ethic, attitude, recruiting ability, etc.
    Whether or not one believes White has such qualities is up to each individual to assess.
     
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  10. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    Two things this year.

    1st He changed up the offense early in the season because the guys were not getting it.

    2nd He threw out a different defense on UGA in the 2nd half which totally baffled them and we won the game behind a 55 point output.
     
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  11. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    The ball bounced Billy’s way a few times and bounced the other way a few times (including losses to Gonzaga, Creigton, Butler and Louisville) if I am recalling correctly. The difference between the coaching abilities of Billy and Mike White is huge. It can be really painful watching the current version of the Gator team. Under Billy, it was a marvel watching the Gators beat teams with tremendous talent. I find it strange that the Gators have had so many players in the last few years who shot the ball worse than at any other time in their careers. IMO, whatever kind of offense the team is currently playing, it sucks. Nembhard would have been outstanding in a Billy D offense; not so much in a Mike White offense.
     
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  12. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Any idea as to what the offense was that got tossed and what the new offense is.
     
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  13. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    The original was supposed to be a dribble-drive offense. Don't know if I recall an actual name for what their running now
     
  14. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    It doesn't really matter what offense you're running if the shots are not going in. One kind may get better looks than the other but both are put in place to put the ball through the hoop.
     
  15. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    If you really want to know what I think needs to happen then I think MW needs to smoke a doobie before the game and get a bit looser. :)
     
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  16. regurgigator

    regurgigator VIP Member

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    I still say the overall trajectory of this team has been one of improvement - despite the smelly dump they laid on the floor in Mississippi. :eek:

    There's still a lot of basketball left to be played this season. It could get better (a lot better) or it could get worse (a lot worse). As I've said from the beginning, I'll evaluate this season, as a whole, when it's over. I've found (through 50+ years of following our Gators) that's the point when the most accurate appraisal can be done.

    And, I won't base my decision (which is moot anyway) on White based on this season alone. I agree with those that say White is responsible for everything. But, it's also true that, even under Donovan, some teams exceed expectations and some some don't meet expectations. The coach is always responsible (and ultimately has to answer for whatever his overall record is no matter if he's a great recruiter or a mediocre recruiter), but the players are a variable for each season's results as well.

    I don't trust the perceptions of most on the board, because I think their perceptions are very much molded by their disappointment. There's not a facet of the game that hasn't been vociferously criticized whether the statistics validate the criticism or not. That's the way it always is in both football and basketball when expectations are not being met - even if it's a temporary disappointment during otherwise great seasons (which I still hope this season could become).
     
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  17. number1

    number1 GC Hall of Fame

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    I mean what does it say if we're constantly saying "If the players hit their shots?" Obviously something is wrong if the same issue plagues the team in all 4 of White's 5 seasons here.
     
  18. spike718

    spike718 GC Hall of Fame

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    I could offer a few names of what they are running now....but don’t think cursing is allowed on the board.
     
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  19. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    For the record, I'm on board with Mike White for next season provided he keeps a decent amount of the roster in tact for next season (at least 2 of 3 for Locke, KJ, and Nembhard). Certainly increase the amount of functional bigs we can put on the floor. That said, no coach is looking at our current situation and thinking "what's really lacking here is basketball interest in the region." FLORIDA has a great location, excellent resources, and a coach that has demonstrated that one can successfully recruit here (the previous guy did alright with that as well). Fan apathy shouldn't be a problem on any coach's radar. If anything, it would suggest we don't have a pressure-cooker type atmosphere in terms of demanding success. I believe there is a tendency to over-estimate the importance of a passionate fan base in terms of retaining/attracting a coach.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  20. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    EH... I was on these boards at the time, and there were an awful lot who could not “see the trajectory”.
    And the Billy era didn’t feel much like the Billy era when we got drubbed by 21 to Temple as a 3 seed, bounced by Creighton as a 5 seed, beaten by 15 against manhattan in another 5/12 game, smoked by 22 to mich state when a 2 seed and bounced by ‘nova.
     
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