Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Jul 31, 2020.
Insightful post. I fully understand your point of view.
You might want to try constructing a statement that is legible. Then, I will respond.
I think we need to frame this differently. That isn't the conservative playbook. That is the modern Republican party playbook.
I don't fear conservative ideas and think it is important we have actual conservative voices at the table contributing to policy making decisions. But we haven't seen actual conservative ideals for many years and have instead seen what you describe -- by a group of people who claim to be conservative. But those aren't actually conservative ideas. There is no conservative party these days.
Conceding that the ACA as enacted was flawed and needed fixes, it was still better than what existed prior to its enactment. I suppose that you had no problem with cancer survivors or children born with congenital conditions like Down syndrome being denied access to private health insurance based on a preexisting condition. By the way the ACA was very similar to the Republican healthcare reform legislation of 1993. By the way, after the ACA was enacted the percentage of uninsured Americans declined every year reaching its lowest level in decades until it started to increase after Trump took office.
You are right the problem with the ACA was it didn't go quite far enough. It was essentially the plan of The Heritage Foundation, which patterned after the private insurance/private health care provider systems in Switzerland and Germany and was proposed by Rs in 1993 in response to the efforts (led by Hillary as First Lady) to go to a universal healthcare system back then.
The ACA was weakened because the R's did everything they could to weaken it during the legislative process with amendments as if some might vote for it with those amendemnts (before then all voting against it) and a few Dem Senators who were going to vote against it unless some provisions were weakened (in particular demanding there be no public option). And the ACA did nothing to reduce drug prices, a strategic decision by Obama's team up front to try to at least keep the drug companies from vehemently opposing it which probably would have been a death knell for it. Obama and the Dems as a whole hoped it would be strengthened over time. Unfortunately the exact opposite happened and Rs spent 10 years trying to repeal it and gutting it in every way possible including in the courts.
I think we will see it strengthened under Biden, but given all the problems we face as a country with the pandemic and the economy I don't think it will get as much attention as it otherwise would have gotten. But hopefully we will take some big steps forward under Biden and we can then as country settle on the idea the ACA is here to stay and work together to make it work as best as is possible. I do hope there is Medicare expansion, such as by reducing the age of eligibility.
It’s frustrating that most people equate Trump and today’s GOP with conservatism. True conservatives loath Trump’s perversion of their philosophy.
As for the promise of a health plan, it’s vintage Trump. One wonders how he can stand before the cameras and God and make such a boldface lie, and how the sheep who follow him can be undisturbed by it.
Probably because that's his target market, and when a crook wants to exploit a market, he'll exploit away no matter who the exploiter hurts. They just don't care. Been seeing that for 40 years and I'm just one guy. MAGA baby!
You should pop over to the covid thread, this same poster was going on about people getting effected with the virus.
Painful to read some posts on here at times.
I hope the Lincoln project folks succeed not only in helping defeat Trump, but also the other frauds in the Republican party. I lean Progressive as to more issues than not, but understand the need for true conservative voices to balance out the public conversation and making sure we can keep a level head as to policy changes. There is a lot of room for common agreement to help us all if we have legit conservatives willing to work with legit liberals. And we better get our act together way too many issues which need to be addressed have lingered way too long due to gridlock in Congress. I worry because at some point one party will end up crushing the other in elections due to a crisis and there could be so much momentum and frustration that we go too far in one direction and all end up regretting it even the supposed "winners" who got much of what they wanted.
Really? And you aren't saying Democrats don't lie to get into OR to stay in office? Didn't we see a couple Democrats from California just resign from lies?
Then #2. It's appropriate since you are full of it. If anything, the judges he appointed have ruled against him more times than any in history. He's lost more cases than won with the same people he appointed. Want some proof? Here you go - A Conservative Court and Trump’s Own Appointees Declare Their Independence
3) That can be said of the 15 times since JFK about the democrats.
4) Democrats blamed the republicans for the past 70 years.
Trump has tried to replace but everything stalls in the House, which you-know-who controls. No, not Voldemort, worse, Pelosi.
If you can point to a plan Trump presented to replace ACA, I will gladly read it. It doesn’t exist. You know it doesn’t exist. In what world is Trump trying if he’s never put forward a plan?
Point of order, the House has been voting on bills, it is the Senate that has been stalling everything.
Browse U.S. Legislative Information - 116th Congress (2019-2020)
Look under legislation by number to compare the amount of work the two have done.
The cowards in the Senate don’t want to bring any legislation to the floor because they’ll be held accountable by voters for voting against things they want. So they hide behind the grim reapers skirts.
Nov 3rd Vote
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's not what the party is based on like the Republican party.
If you give the Democrats complete control then they pass every bill that they have proposed. The problem is that's not how politics work, when a party rarely gets complete control they only have so much political capital to enact their proposals so they have to be selective. That's usually when Republicans start lying to convince the gullible section of the public that they could get rid of it and replace it with something "better". They can't run on just scrapping whatever the Democrats do because that'll end up being wildly unpopular so they'll just pretend like something is coming.
This is my biggest reason for supporting eliminating the filibuster. I think the filibuster only hurts Democrats and allows Republicans to explain away their inability to do anything when they have control. They would either need to enact their extremely unpopular positions which would sour extremely quickly, do nothing as the party cannibalizes itself, or actually change their platform to something more popular. No more hiding.
RealGator, you really ought to come back and tell us what proposals for health care Trump sent to Congress but were stalled in the House.
I don't remember any, but that doesn't mean there weren't any.
And when you make a claim like that, you really should say what they were.
Trump has a health plan that's been obvious throughout 2020. His plan is to see how many people he can help to die and how many hospitals he can fill to the max through COVID-19. That's why he keeps saying the country overall is in good shape during this pandemic. What he means is that his plan is working splendidly.
The Republican Party is racist and soulless. Just ask this veteran GOP strategist.
Basically everything I was saying about the Republican party except from a former GOP strategist. This basically sums it up:
“Republicans only exist to elect Republicans,” Stevens remarked with sadness. “They are down to one idea: How can we win?”
Just a reminder to anyone on the fence; the President still has no plan.
In the last 20 years we’ve had 12 years of Republicans and 8 of Democratic presidents. Of these years we’ve have a Republican congress in both houses 10 years, and a Republican senate 18 years. Trump hasn’t stopped increases in insurance. The right just doesn’t complain about it like they don’t complain about the debt.