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(SB) Is Mike Bosch a genius?

Discussion in 'Diamond Gators' started by johnny_cakes, Apr 9, 2021.

  1. johnny_cakes

    johnny_cakes All American

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    Not going to throw any former coaches under the bus, but it sure seems that Mike Bosch is able to improve a pitching staff. And I'll admit that my frame of reference starts in 2016 when I became an self-admitted fanboy of UF softball.

    Kelly Barnhill was awesome. Arrived awesome but never really improved -- in fact, her sophomore year was her best. In an ESPN interview, she lamented never developing a change-up during her time at UF, which she said she'd need for the Olympics.

    Mostly you can say the same for the other pitchers of that era -- Ocassio/Gourley. Stayed the same during their tenure at UF.

    Granted every situation is different, but Bosch seems to make modifications to pitchers that produce positive results. Bosch introduced a change-up to Lugo with great effect. Lugo was 2.41 ERA prior to his arrival and 1.4 now. Likewise, he has reduced the number of pitches Chronister throws to three, letting her concentrate on those. Chronister had a 3.94 ERA prior to Bosch's arrival and now is 1.93.

    We don't have a "lights out" pitching staff with natural talent like the Gourley/Occassio/Barnhill years. Seems like Mike Bosch is taking a pretty pedestrian staff and getting max results from them.
     
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  2. apkgator

    apkgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Hannah Rogers massively improved, IMO Haeger also improved as a pitcher....agree Barnhill never made those strides but she was still great.
    I think Bosch is very good, done pretty well considering I'm not sure we have that dominant ace we are used to. Would sure like to see Rylee step up as I somewhat expected this season.
     
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  3. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Jen Rocha was a great pitching coach. Nelson, Rogers, Brombacher, Haeger etc.
    I never did quite understand why they never got a true change up into KB’s Arsenal. But my assumption was always that Kelly overthought things (by her own admission) and they might have been afraid to make too many changes with her.
     
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  4. alysb21

    alysb21 All American

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    I don't know that we can really compare Bosch and Rocha when you consider the differences in personnel in the bullpen. But, I will say that Bosch has seemed to do well with what he has so far. Definitely have seen the improvements of these pitchers. Whether that's been more from gaining maturity or development under Bosch who knows. I would say it's a combo of both. I would like to see what happens in the few years as Elizabeth has another year I think, and with Rylee and Haley Pittman as far as how they develop.
     
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  5. number1

    number1 GC Hall of Fame

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    I think Barnhill's issues were 100% mental. She let little things creep into her head which affected her performance, especially at the WCWS.

    I don't know what he saw with Gourley to say she stayed the same, but she certainly looked like an excellent pitcher to me during her time in Gainesville.
     
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  6. apkgator

    apkgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree. IF Hightower follows that Hannah Rogers arc it would be impressive. Rylee came in highly touted and it hasn't translated as yet.....need her to develop.
    I guess Pittman is just going to redshirt, not a bad idea with 4 pitchers in front of her. I didn't get to see her work vs Team USA.....curious what those that saw her thought of the outing.
     
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  7. GatorGirl15

    GatorGirl15 Junior

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    Pittman didn’t do so great, she gave up a lot of walks.

    But it was her first time pitching this season, and it was against Team USA. So I don’t fault her.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  8. alysb21

    alysb21 All American

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    I think one important thing to remember with Rylee is her first year was ended early obviously, and this off-season was not normal. They couldn’t practice as much and all of that, so maybe that is one reason we haven’t seen a huge jump from her. The only thing that contradicts that is Hightower and Chronister making the jumps they have, but then again they have more experience and have had longer to work with Bosch.
     
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  9. GatorLegend

    GatorLegend VIP Member

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    Not to beat a dead horse but Kelly’s inability to field a bunt and throw to any base was a major mental flaw in her game. Not sure how much of a mental toll that took on Kelly her last couple seasons but I’m sure it played a role. SEC coaches like Murphy at Bama identified that flaw, as well as Kelly’s inability to change speeds and often accused her of illegal pitches. I remember a game at Georgia where she gave up back to back to back bombs. Shouldn’t happen to a pitcher of her ability but you’ve got to be able to change speeds to keep them off balance.

    Speaking of fielding a bunt, was really impressed by the play Chronister made in the game against WKU yesterday. As a left handed pitcher she fielded a bunt back to the mound, had to spin around to get lined up to throw to first, and then threw a bullet to first, to beat a fast runner. Very impressive and came at a critical point in the game, late and up by one run.
     
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  10. manigordo

    manigordo GC Hall of Fame

    No Sir. Gourley and Ocassio both improved throughout. Rocha was a real loss and let us hope that Bosch is a fine coach.
     
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  11. johnny_cakes

    johnny_cakes All American

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    As I admitted up front, I don't know the Rogers/Hagar years as I just started fandom a few years back -- it seemed to me like not much improvement from Gourley /Ocassio since I've been a fan. Based on your post, I went back and crunched the numbers since maybe my impression was inaccurate:

    Ocassio:
    2016: 0.70 ERA
    2017: 1.51 ERA
    2018: 1.45 ERA

    Gourley:
    2016: 0.80 ERA
    2017: 0.71 ERA

    Again, the only point of this thread is a tip of the hat to Bosch based on observations from when I started being a fan -- not throwing anyone under the bus. :)
     
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  12. manigordo

    manigordo GC Hall of Fame

    Well-reasoned and friendly response. Thanks! I watched them pitch every year and stats can be misleading. How many games? Against what quality hitters? As years progress, it seems likely they pitched against more quality hitting.I would take ANY of their ERA's in a heartbeat. I simply disagree and think Rocha was a big loss.I don't think Oklahoma fans would trade. And, as others have pointed out, while Barnhill disappointed, Rocha had a significant history of making pitchers elite. Like you, I have been impressed with Chronister and Hightower. Not elite, by any means, but SEC pitchers. I very much want you to be right.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  13. TheRaid

    TheRaid Premium Member

    I guess Montana Fouts can't change speeds either? Every great pitcher has given up multiple homeruns. It isn't because of the inability to change speeds.
     
  14. GatorGirl15

    GatorGirl15 Junior

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    Hightower has done a fantastic job this year, especially for someone who has come on as the primary starter after being 3rd or 4th on the depth chart.

    I started watching softball during the Nelson years (favorite pitcher) and people forget that a lot of fans considered Rogers just good, not great. The moment post-season play started during her senior year she carried the pitching on her back to a national title.

    The same way Haeger was always considered our #2 starter because her offense was always more important. She stepped up in a huge way in 2015 (second title).

    I definitely miss Rocha and would have her back in a heartbeat, but I also think Bosch had a done a nice job filling her shoes so far.
     
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  15. apkgator

    apkgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree. And people forget Rogers and Haeger had some rough stretches, they just pitched really well when it counted. In some ways the reverse of KB
     
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  16. GatorLegend

    GatorLegend VIP Member

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    Don’t know much about Montana Fouts and not sure that’s really important. If you don’t agree that the ability to change speeds is an important part of pitching in both baseball and fast pitch softball then I think a lot of people will disagree with you. In the opening post Kelly was quoted lamenting the fact she never learned a change up at Florida. Her thoughts, her words, not mine.
     
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  17. TheRaid

    TheRaid Premium Member

    You misunderstood. The ability to change speeds is important. But, everyone has the ability to variably slow down a pitch. I've coached fastpitch for many years. I have coached 13 girls who play or have played college softball including a few pitchers. My point to you is that Kelly can indeed change speeds, just like you and I can. A change-up pitch is not only about speed, it is also about trajectory and location in comparison to the pitcher's other pitches along with the ability to identify setups and takes compared to the batter's abilities and swing habits and/or making her pitch appear like her go to pitch but at a different speed. She had trouble not putting the ball in the sweet spot at a slower speed or putting the ball in a hittable spot at a slower speed as part of her arsenal of pitches. As a result, her slower pitches could be jacked out of the park more easily than her other pitches. Thus, she said she regretted not developing her "change-up", which is different than another pitcher's change-up. Note, she did not say she regretted not developing the ability to throw at different speeds.

    Montana Fouts is heralded as one of the best pitchers in the college game today and has Team USA experience. She is struggling giving up the long ball and has given up the long ball back to back just as almost every great pitcher has in their career. She can change speeds. And, she has a change-up or two or three. Not having a change-up isn't the cause of giving up the long ball.

    The worst thing that happened to KB, who I admire greatly as a softball pitcher, is the loss of her pitching coach when she needed her the most. When the softball gods changed enforcement of certain pitching rules, it was to stunt her. Rocha could have solved that riddle but KB didn't have an answer b/c her coaches didn't have one. Therefore, she was mentally affected and it bothered her focus as a fielder which spilled into the ability to field the bunt. I assure you, she knew how to field the bunt and did so thousands of times in her travel career. She could have been one of the greatest pitchers to ever play the game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
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  18. joebrown352

    joebrown352 Sophomore

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    Great post.
     
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