Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorRev, May 17, 2020.
Do you see an abuse of power by T?
Encouraging and then abandoning the Arab spring was a colossal failure that killed millions and fundamentally altered Europe while strengthening Iran. That is a little more serious than a gaffe or a mistake
I see you've consumed an entire pitcher of the cool aide.
I learned today apparently you need to be educated to become rich to buy a boat to fly a Trump flag in a boat parade supporting Trump. So if not for his kids, at least support education for the Trump boat parades
I hold an Engineering degree from UF in the late 50's, when most stopped at that level to go to work. My mother, father, and both siblings are college grads, so yes we are all educated. We all think for ourselves, and also do not like to be talked down to by people like you who wield their degree like a sword.
I'm going to go with YES, while also noting that the bar has been set pretty low.
There we go again. Another talking points thread started by the same poster polluting the board with them. Let’s all divert from the fact that Trump is incapable of governing and ignore the economic conditions inherited by Obama Biden and where we were when we left office.
This predisposes that Obama actually caused the Arab Spring. Did we add a little juice to it? Probably, once it was in motion we may have thought it would be advantageous. As I recall even the mainstream media was reporting on it like it could be a good thing, unfortunate reality on the ground was far more messy/complex. Revolutions don’t always lead to clean democracy or newfound freedom, esp when you get religious fundamentalists involved in these fights. Obama’s choices were basically step back, or get involved in a middle eastern civil war on the opposite side of Russia. What is our endgame there? Our only endgame should be siding with democracy and human rights. But we aren’t going to send troops in every time, there are other avenues to show our support.
Defining the red line I guess set him up, that is the go to talking point, but in reality what was the U.S going to do? We did (I believe) find the right strategy once it became clear the “wrong side” was gaining power, we backed the Kurds to defeat the ISIS ideological radicals. Trump kept this strategy going, that is until effectively betraying the Kurds to the Turkish and Russians dictators.
That sounds like you think the 'far left' is some kind of single entity. How else could he cut a deal with it?
If they end up having an in person debate, at least Biden won't have to shake hands with trump. I'm sure neither of them would like it, and they won't have to pretend.
Those are not, generally speaking, little mistakes or gaffes. Claiming that the U.S. has 57 states is a minor mistake or gaffe. Obama's ineptitude in foreign policy alone qualifies him as a terrible president. At one point, he was backing one of eleven (ELEVEN!) groups within Syria that spent most of its time and weaponry fighting another group that was backed by Turkey, OUR ALLY in the middle east! (Does Obama not know about diplomacy?) And that was after he lit the flame of the Arab Spring protestors and poured gasoline on the fire (basically, he helped start a civil war in another country), and then drew his red line in the sand (in invisible ink) before fainting and losing his nerve. He literally helped create ISIS, the most bloodthirsty terrorist organization in modern history, just by being incompetent, cowardly, and leading from behind. We were fortunate that ISIS was not able to carry out any big terrorist attacks in the U.S., although they recruited plenty of Americans to help with the fighting in Syria. And the cowardice was clearly noticed by China and Russia, who quickly made claims of their own on parts of the planet that did not belong to them, and ramped up development of their military to support those claims. It is hard to imagine any president screwing up a situation as badly as Obama screwed up in Syria.
Why were the people of Syria protesting? Mainly because the drought they experienced in the previous year caused food prices to double. You could take what we spent fighting ISIS, supporting one of the groups that was supposed to be fighting Assad, and dealing with the Syrian refugee crisis, and divide it by ten. That's what we could have spent sending food over to Syria and prevented the entire catastrophe, and probably had millions left over. The Syrian disaster has affected the entire middle east, as well as Europe, who took in most of the 6 million refugees. And it was all avoidable, if we had a competent president.
Reagan had one significant scandal, and that was Iran-Contra. Although if you were to fast forward 30 years, you would see the liberal media practically giving Obama a medal for a more significant gift to our new friends, the Iranians (who are still looking to draw us into a proxy war in the middle east to kill more of the Great Satan soldiers). For most of his presidency, Reagan's philosophy with hostile countries was "Trust, but Verify". Obama's version was "Trust, and Hope for the Best". And Reagan did far more than just stand by and watch the USSR collapse--he helped engineer it. He had ten times as much to do with the collapse of the USSR than Bill Clinton had to do with the rise of the internet economy, and about five times as much as Obama had to do with the economic recovery from the Great Recession (that Bill Clinton helped create).
I think putting Biden in just gets us back to normal. It's not about him making his mark as one of the great presidents ever, it's about getting away from the drive toward the fringe and lack of actual legislation. Trump has done next to nothing legislatively other than what the GOP already wanted to do, and not all of that (e.g. Obamacare repeal). Obama was pushing hard for more significant change that lost him the legislature for the last 6 years of his presidency. People liked him but weren't on board in large enough numbers with what he was trying to do. Biden will hopefully put some smart people around him, fight off the demands of the progressive wing and make some incremental change. So get away from big, controversial legislative programs and chip away at the problems with smaller bills that are harder to oppose. Congress is a mess right now and it will take a significant effort to try to get them working together again. That's not going to happen with fringe proposals.
Meanwhile, Trump is a foreign policy mastermind.
You can see the look on Kim's face ... he's like, Oh yeah, that's going on my Instagram....
BTW, how that best ever Iran deal going?
Biden isn't a great debater to begin with although he didn't perform too badly in his last two Democratic primary debates. Trump does have one real advantage though, he doesn't have to worry about telling the truth since he considers it irrelevant, his insult comedy plays very well among his base and as a skilled comedian he is rather skilled at ad libbing.
Speaking of Trump's repudiation of the Iran deal, it has had an effect on the Iranian nuclear program.
Iran resumes uranium enrichment in new step away from nuclear deal
Iran Boosts Enriched Uranium Stockpile | Arms Control Association
So if you think Obama “created” isis because of some flippant comments that were extremely stupid in hindsight, I assume you must be all over Trumps “15 cases down to zero” nonsense??? Which was his position basically right up until the NBA got out in front of things and suspended their season. The NBA was more proactive than the federal govt political leaders in addressing a global pandemic. Think about that.
Both guys were aloof about threats. One threat killed maybe hundreds of Americans. The other will kill hundreds of thousands. I’m guessing despite the numbers and initial response, you wouldn't think it’s fair to say Trump “unleashed the virus” on Americans or that he “created the pandemic”?
Obama made some mistakes for sure, the ISIS one may have been his biggest (certainly the JV team comment stands out as him underestimating the threat, and it is a rightly infamous quote), but in my view he took the pragmatic approach and came to the correct strategy once he recognized the severity of the ISIS situation. I think that was Obama’s main failing, he was a bit wishy washy on decisions, an over thinker. Trump is the opposite. He just grasps at anything, sometimes to his own detriment or regardless of legality. Basically, whoever the last person to convince him something will be good for him personally is where his decision tree goes. Trump hasn’t learned a damned thing here, he is back basically to the same level of idiocy he portrayed in February and early March. I guess he put on a good act for a few weeks, because some of the scientists must have gotten through about the threat. Now we are back to Fox News misinformation and lunacy driving the show, too worried about re-election to worry about a proper pandemic strategy.
Well, there was some nominal opposition. I voted for one of them - Willian Weld - but the Republicans have become the party of Trump and support whatever he wants for the most part. Never seen a political party with a long storied history turn into a cult of personality especially one that has the attributes you so well described. How did this happen?
he received the support of Warren and Bernie. We don’t know what was promised for that, if anything. It’s really a simple concept and I’m surprised that it sounds like you don’t think that’s possible.
It's down to Biden and Trump. Who did you think they were going to support once it was clear he was winning the nomination?