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IC Whistleblower files complaint about Trump's promise to foreign leader

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ursidman, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    I think justice is one important issue, but more important is whether a precedent is allowed to stand for a President behaving above the law and above the Constitution.
     
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  2. surfn1080

    surfn1080 GC Legend

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    Can you explicitly show where he went above the law and constitution?
    You realize that there is a report out that shows Ukraine was not even informed of removing the military aid 1 month after the call!
    On top of that, Trumps inquiry was about 2016 the eniter time. The dems and MSM once again overplayed this and now independent votes further lost trust in MSM.

    Americans' Trust in Mass Media Edges Down to 41%

    I hope the dems and MSM realize they are gifting 2020 to Trump...
     
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  3. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    McCarthy is a strong advocate that the Obama Admin was overtly political especially at the DOJ. I will freely admit that. However, if you listen to his podcasts and his writings on Trump, he is not a Trump fan boy. He is more of a Trump transactionalist.

    As far as your points about his view of the Mueller probe, he actually started off on the Mueller investigation stating that what the right was claiming the FBI did on the FISA warrants there was no way that could have happened. His stance was the FBI always did it homework and did not play around with FISA warrants. After the redacted FISA warrants came out, that is when he changed his opinion.

    I could go on here but we would probably be better off taking it off line rather than hijacking this thread into another Mueller probe thread.
     
  4. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Above the law:
    - Multiple counts of obstruction of justice. Over 1000 former federal Prosecutors say so.
    - Campaign finance fraud (paying off women to keep them quiet about affairs). Cohen doing time for it now and Trump is an unindicted coconspirator.
    - Campaign finance fraud again. Soliciting/extorting dirt on political rivals from a foreign govt. Russia and Ukraine.

    Constitutional violations.
    - Violating the Emoluments clauses using his properties to make Bank on the taxpayer dime, and on foreign dignitaries and delegations.
    - Refusing lawful congressional oversight requests as standard practice.
    - Repeatedly overriding congressionally legislated spending to redirect and/or withhold funds as he sees fit. In this case to extort a foreign leader.

    I'm sure there are more examples. That's off the top of my head.
     
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  5. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    So by that standard, Republicans should have impeached Obama for implementing DACA as even Obama himself stated that he did not have the Constitutional Authority to issue it prior to actually issuing it.
     
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  6. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Legend

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    Your complaints about the FISA crap are really irrelevant at this point, even if they were legitimate (hint: they aren't and never were).

    By excusing Trump's behavior with Ukraine, you've now consented to the president weaponizing the resources and power of the federal government to persecute political rivals and advance his personal interests.

    If your Republican colleagues in the Senate exonerate and legitimize this kind of behavior, expect much worse than a shaky FISA warrant on Carter Page the next time a Democrat is in office.

    But hey, party first, right?
     
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  7. gatornana

    gatornana Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    There's a 2nd whistleblower:

    The tax whistleblower, meanwhile, went straight to Congress ― specifically to the House Ways and Means Committee, which had sued the Trump administration for refusing to provide copies of the president’s tax returns in response to a formal request. Democrats say they need Trump’s returns to make sure the IRS properly enforces tax laws against the president.

    But Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal (D-Mass.) is far less outspoken than Schiff, and his approach to the tax case has been cautious. He decided to stay focused on the lawsuit, using the whistleblower’s material to bolster that case.

    In a brief last month, the committee told the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia that a “federal employee” had approached them with “evidence of possible misconduct” and “inappropriate efforts” to influence an IRS audit of the president. The document provided no further detail about the whistleblower, but in a footnote, Democrats offered to tell U.S. District Judge Trevor McFadden all about it in private.


    A spokesman for the committee said this week that McFadden, a Trump nominee who donated to the Trump 2016 campaign and volunteered for the Trump presidential transition, has so far not asked to hear more about the whistleblower. He denied a Democratic motion to speed up the case.

    Donald Trump Actually Has 2 Whistleblowers To Worry About | HuffPost
     
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  8. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    That would be a valid complaint.

    It pales by comparison to what we have here, due to the criminal actions involved, but it is part of a steady increase in the Executive taking power from Congress.
     
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  9. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps the presidents illegalities are catching up with him. Perhaps.

    Don't care for Pence or the Indiana body politic. Indiana is the "Alabama" or "Mississippi" of the North / Midwest. Don't believe? Check Indiana political history circa 1920's - The epicenter of the KKK, Governor included.

    But I don't think Pence is anywhere near the threat to American Democracy that his peer is. Besides he will be out of office Jan 2020.

    As far as "handing the election to the GOP in 2020" I just laugh and I certainly don't agree. In fact I think the proverbial hammer is coming for them, I think the American Electorate has had enough. I see the GOP losing the presidency, not winning the house and possibly losing the senate.

    Trump blew it and I don't think all the money, promises and lies he spins will save him. He may not get impeached but he sure as hell ain't getting re-elected, just my opinion of course.

    I have always been rather reserved in my political motivation but this President has motivated me to talk to anyone that will listen of the importance to get rid of him, to vote. If someone like myself is this energized I suspect there are literally millions more like me.
     
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  10. ursidman

    ursidman GC Hall of Fame

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    Because the President has committed crimes, violated the Constitution, and broken his oath of office.
    Yes, it is politically risky but some things (this thing) out weighs partisan considerations imo.
     
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  11. ursidman

    ursidman GC Hall of Fame

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    Don't underestimate the political weasels in the Senate for whom party outweighs country.
     
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  12. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    So what happens if Trump wins re-election after being Impeached and then acquitted in the Senate? What recourse does Congress have against him at that point?

    The phrase "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" keeps coming to mind during this discussion.
     
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  13. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm surprised there isn't more focus on Barr.
     
  14. gatornana

    gatornana Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    It's like Pelosi said.....he'll self-impeach.
     
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  15. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    So this is not to argue your points but just give you a view from the right of the non-MAGA crowd. I had this conversation with a couple Republican family members. We're not Trump fans. Most would have sat out the '16 election if were not for the open Senate seat. Everyone wishes Trump would stop tweeting and just shut up and only come out to announce economic numbers and SCOTUS nominations. However, turning on CNN/MSNBC/etc for longer than 15 minutes makes us want to defend Trump. This is a common complaint I’ve continued to hear from a lot of Trump skeptics. The coverage is so over the top. And there is a common feeling on the right that Democrats with the media as their ally are out to get Trump no matter what. Going through with an Impeachment 13 months ahead of an election will validate feeling and will likely galvanize the same voters that would have sat out the last election to vote for Trump again in '20.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  16. ursidman

    ursidman GC Hall of Fame

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    Then you should encourage impeachment. This should make you happy.
     
  17. surfn1080

    surfn1080 GC Legend

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    Obstruction of justice - omg you cant be serious... keep on beating that horse...
    Where is the hard evidence on the campaign finance fraud? Once again there is nothing there to show he solicits in fact Ukraine prez is the one to bring it up! Where is the quid pro quo???

    All you know is dems are reviewing possible violations of Emoluments clause. Knowing dems history on investigating Trump - likely nothing here

    speaking of congressional request:
    9 Times The Obama Administration Fought Subpoenas or Blocked Officials from Testifying Before Congress

    Because you want something to be true does not mean it is. Dems are just as bad as the pubs were when Obama was president... it's a cycle that apparently will never end...
     
  18. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The same recourse that they have now. Stretching things out for political expediency doesn't exactly sell the message that this is an actual serious legal issue and helps strengthen the argument that it is political. In addition, Trump's strategy on breaking the law has largely been to declare victory even when he has been found to break the law, have a bunch of people that don't like him call him ridiculous for doing so, and then his defenders will willfully forget what happened. It is a strategy that relies on the nature of the news cycle, which allows them to sweep the issue out of the news in about a week. See, for example, when he was listed as an unindicted co-conspirator on a felony violation of campaign finance laws. Now, if you bring that up, Republicans either simply ignore it, call it old news, or pretend they have never even heard about that.

    There shouldn't be a rush to judgment, but there needs to be some expediency in addressing his lawbreaking, because, at some point, there needs to be consequences for that. This complaint specifically involved him breaking the law in regards to the next campaign. It comes after his own DOJ stated that he broke the law during the last campaign. It should probably be addressed before rather than after the campaign, in which, if he were to win while breaking the law, he could reasonably claim vindication that nobody cares about his lawbreaking.
     
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  19. gatornana

    gatornana Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    So none of the allegations from this whistleblower or the results of the Mueller investigation come into play with them? I understand the media over does the drama thing but facts and serious allegations are available to people without the added drama.
     
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  20. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The campaign finance violation was listed in the plea documents for Cohen's guilty plea. He entered a plea of guilty to violating campaign finance laws by paying off Trump's mistresses. He did so purposefully and knowing that he was making an illegal contribution to the campaign. He was ordered to do so by his boss, Donald Trump. Donald Trump conspired to commit a felony. I am not sure what is not proven there, given that his own DOJ felt comfortable enough with that set of facts to outline it in an official plea agreement.
     
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