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How messed up is our healthcare system?

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oragator1, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    When he stops lying like crazy--which we all probably know will never happen--or when people wake the bleep up and realize that LCT's do damage. That kool aid must be some really good stuff.
     
  2. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    That's strange, because Yale just released a study saying universal healthcare would save $450 billion dollars a year. Improving the prognosis of health care in the USA - ScienceDirect!

    Please link to a study showing it would bankrupt America.
     
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  3. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

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    Is the best defense of our healthcare system people can muster now that we are stuck with what we got and cant do anything about it?
     
  4. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    They're just really digging that Obamacare.
     
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  5. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    What I find even more Ironic is that people who want the US to go with universal HC think it is somehow going to be FREE, even medicare patients have to pay 20% unless they buy the supplemental, a fact lost on most who aren't on it.

    The uninformed don't seem to get that they will be paying for it themselves it wont be the rich dude down the street footing the bill..
     
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  6. LouisvilleGator

    LouisvilleGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, because as we know, we can always figure out the world's biggest problems in a classroom.

    I'll settle for these snippets in the CBO's report, since they specialize in this stuff:

    "That’s because there’s no uniform cost estimate for single-payer and no easy formula to apply."

    "Single-payer health care would probably require new taxes. Just what level of taxes, though, and whom they’d hit hardest remain open questions."

    CBO’s Report On Single-Payer Health Care Holds More Questions Than Answers
     
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  7. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    We can agree to disagree. I bought my first home at age 23, I knew what I could afford. I didn't need a "mortgage" specialist to tell me about debt to income ratios. Further more anyone who lied or inflated their income to get a loan has ZERO to complain about. Plenty of people weren't first timers either, plenty buying to flip, upsize etc.

    I'm not saying the first timer knew better and certainly PLENTY of crappy real estate "pros" from the agents to the mortgage people let the shit slide through. (I'll lump interest only loans in the "pro's" area of fault, even though I myself would NEVER do such a thing)
     
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  8. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    We can do lots, however the system will have to totally be changed and the ripples will be huge.

    I see eventually an option that's "universal coverage" but not every medical provider will take it so it will be a two tier system.

    Look how many providers don't take insurance at all now cash only. Submit back to the ins co and see what they give you back.
     
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  9. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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    I didn't see anyone on here thinking that it was going to be free, did I miss something?

    Also, it would appear that you think I favor universal healthcare, I don't. As with any policy question, solutions are not easy and can't be reduced to a bumper sticker or internet meme. However, there are posters in this thread that decry healthcare for other folks but are more than happy to take from everyone else.
     
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  10. ursidman

    ursidman GC Hall of Fame

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    I think a real good first step would be for Medicare to be allowed to negotiate prices with drug companies - a strategy broadly popular across the political spectrum. This would actually save quite a bit of taxpayer money. There are a number of bills that would do some form of this that have been introduced in the house.

    What’s the Latest on Medicare Drug Price Negotiations?
    • H.R. 3, Lower Drug Costs Now Act of 2019, introduced by Speaker Pelosi and sponsored by Representatives Frank Pallone (D-NJ), Richard Neal (D-MA), and Bobby Scott (D-VA), the respective Chairmen of House Committees Energy & Commerce, Ways & Means, and Education & Labor (as amended on October 16, 2019)
    • H.R. 1046/S. 377, Medicare Negotiation and Competitive Licensing Act of 2019, sponsored by Representative Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) in the House and Senator Sherrod Brown (D-OH) in the Senate
    • H.R. 448/S. 99, Medicare Drug Price Negotiation Act, sponsored by Representative Elijah Cummings (D-MD) in the House and Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) in the Senate
    • S. 62, Empowering Medicare Seniors to Negotiate Drug Prices Act of 2019, sponsored by Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)2
    • H.R. 275, Medicare Prescription Drug Price Negotiation Act of 2019, sponsored by Representative Peter Welch (D-VT)

    What are the prospects for Medicare drug price negotiation?
    With Medicare Part D prescription drug spending on the rise, and strong and bipartisan public support for policymakers to take action to ensure the affordability of medications (Figure 2), many policy options to lower drug prices are under consideration, including allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices. A large majority of the public favors a policy to allow the government to negotiate drug prices, although public views can shift substantially when people hear arguments against the policy often used by opponents, including the pharmaceutical industry.

    [​IMG]
    Figure 2: Most Proposals for Lowering Prescription Drug Costs Are Popular Across Parties

    Because allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices would require a change in the law, bipartisan support would be needed for current proposals to move forward in Congress and become law. Congressional Republicans have generally been opposed to allowing the Secretary to negotiate drug prices under Medicare, instead preferring the current market-based approach in Part D. The pharmaceutical industry continues to express
    its resistance to this proposal based on concerns that it would lower revenue, have a dampening effect on research and development, and limit access to new drugs. Congressional Democrats are generally supportive of government negotiations on drug prices, as is the public, and President Trump endorsed the idea prior to taking office, but it was not included in the Administration’s 2018 blueprint to lower drug prices nor in its proposed budgets to date.
    CBO estimates the drug price negotiation provisions in H.R. 3 would achieve $345 billion in Medicare savings over the period between 2023 (the first year in which maximum fair prices would be used in Part D) and 2029.
     
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  11. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, first you are a Gator so practically by definition you are smarter and more intelligent than your average Joe. You understood it, but never underestimate the stupidity factor that is out there that have no experience in the home buying process. They are fresh meat and easily exploitable. And there are plenty of exploiters that are more than happy to exploit. It's not the buyers fault. One need not look no further than WDC for the perfect example.

    Also, a lot of the first timers submitted legit factual documentation (w-2's, 1099's, 1040's, ect) that would normally disqualify them for the loan, but the "mortgage professional" would doctor these documents up after the application to get the borrower approved. I personally witnessed that countless times spanning decades, including my first wife (did I mention she is an ex-wife? :D). She was an artist with a bottle of white out, a scripto knife, and an amazing ability to lower the resolution on my copier just to the right setting so that the fake document looked real enought to get it past the goalie ERRR underwriter to close the loan so that she could get paid. Sick.

    It's not even close, And I'm just one guy. This was/is a nationwide epidemic. For those that didn't get hurt, just because y'all didn't get hurt doesn't mean it did not happen, and it doesn't mean it's all OK. We get undone when some young man steals from the 7-11, but we're totally cool when some old fart steals 7-8 figures. Whiskey Tango.
     
  12. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

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    I mean yeah, it would involve confronting insurance companies and hospitals (not to mention doctors), who aren't powerless and will spend a lot of money to oppose such things. I wonder if you could get corporations on the side of universal coverage though since you would basically be eliminating a massive expense for them. Though that would basically mean their workers might want more compensation, so probably not.
     
  13. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Does this always have to be our response on the right? I mean Australia does it too. They seem to be doing ok as a free democratic society. I have a good job, I work for an organization (non-profit) that I love. Unfortunately as a small independent affiliate of a larger entity our insurance is sky high, but since it is offered I can't be served by the ACA either. Millions are caught in a similar loophole. I am fortunate to be able to pay for what we need, but many are struggling.

    Affordable universal care can be done if both sides really want it done. It can be done in a way that benefits poorer families the most. I see no reason why we can't have a responsible health care system.

    ...of wait. Yes I do. Politics and Red v. Blue.
     
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  14. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    ...some republicans. :cool:
     
  15. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Wait, how do you know this stuff? You have never told us before? :rolleyes:;)
     
  16. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    People here are usually smarter tan the average citizen. I wasn't referring to any comments from posters here regarding it being free, many who are screaming for it do it under the belief the Gov will "give" it to them.
     
  17. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Just fork over the $80 bucks for the sinus infection. You can still pay out of pocket for the cheap visits.
    Or...do what I do...Never go to a doctor for the minor stuff, take an OTC and let your body do what it does.

    I have not been to a doctor for just feeling sick since high school. That was 29 years ago. That is part of our problem. People run to a doctor with every sniffle.

    Pay out of pocket for the little things and lets have responsible, well managed care for the bigger stuff that cripples families.

    We use a health co-op and they don't pay for the sneezes and sniffles, but they covered my sons two ER visits (he is a typical 9 year old lol) and all the major stuff.

    We could figure it out if we REALLY wanted to. We put men on the moon and ended the cold war. We can do a better HC system than people say we can.
     
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  18. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Bullcrap. When we bought our first house back in 1999, I was young and stupid...but I knew what I made, and I knew what it cost. I was able to do the math. I even knew the equity potential. Guess what? 7 years later I made a killing on that place. If you borrow more than you can afford, that is your fault.

    Dear God, what has happened to personal responsibility?
     
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  19. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    If we are simply using the term "free" to delineate people who aren't paying a large percent of their income for healthcare we are already providing "free healthcare" to a very large percent of our population. For anybody making under $25000 a year Health insurance is free or a few dollars a month subsidized. For anyone making over 200k health ins is roughly 4%-6% of their income at most. As per usual it is the middle class that gets boned hard.
     
  20. Claygator

    Claygator GC Hall of Fame

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    Chile is in green on that map, and I can assure you that it does not offer free, universal healthcare. My son was in the hospital in Santiago in October, and there was a lot of talk then amongst the Chileans about how expensive health care was. A few days later, Santiago erupted in riots over income inequality, one issue being the cost of health care. I rather suspect that your map has other inaccuracies.