How awful was Ivermectin?

Okay, champ. It makes complete sense if I squint and assume your vague assertions are based in fact and not a combination of your confirmation bias and arrogance. If not, I'll take a page out of your book and convince myself that Big Dental simply want to sell me crowns/fillings/whatever because *handwaives bizarre reason*. I dislike what they have to say, so it's clear I'm in the right. Some CA glue and aloe vera will fix them cavities right up! Perhaps I can pray them away?

If you're referring to my eye-rolling toward baseless conspiracy theories and factless claims? It's the height of arrogence and self-inflation to think you know better than people who spend their lives on a specific topic. We need to humble ourselves to people who have spent the time, blood, sweat, and tears on their profession. Does that mean you take a single expert's opinion as gospel? No. It's sound reasoning to ask another doctor for a second opinion. It's smart to remain skeptical of any studies or papers before they're undergone thorough peer review. Hell, even well-established theories have undergone changes with new data and that's a good thing. Don't think that I wouldn't celebrate confirmed evidence demonstrating another COVID treatment that's especially afforable for people who are at-risk. I live with a woman who requires monthy plasma infusions just to avoid a simple cold laying her out for a week. I can't count the number of times I've dragged her to the ER for a sinus infection that went septic. COVID was... not good.

An easy treatment for COVID, like the false promise of Ivermectin? Hell. Yes. It's not a political issue for me and it should not be for anyone. Not ever bloody thing in this world has to be divied between "conservative" and "liberal." It's madness.

I don't know how this is "liberal," unless we assign following sound science, innovation, and respect for expertise as such. I don't know if it's ignorance regarding the nature of empirical naturalism (i.e. scientific method) or simply "I don't like things, therefore they're liberal." Either way, it depresses me.

I wish people would study the 1918 H1N1 epidemic and the influence anti-science rhetoric on infection waves and body counts. Resistance and fermented political ideology in the form of anti-maskers, anti-social distancing, and just general obstinance fueled deadly second waves in San Francisco, Oakland, Birmingham, and other US cities. Isn't the the very essence of conservatism to look to the past to help inform the future?

 

LOL…

Completely off topic. That said…you maybe in the right if you went to Big Dental Corporate. Or you could be in the wrong and end up in the ER one weekend with an $8K bill to get you to the week where you can get back in to take care of what Big Dental treatment planned you.

Absolutely listen to your doctor. They are not pushing these shots. There is a reason no one in the grand scheme took the bivalent booster. And for good reason. It was unnecessary. It turned out the few nice did not catch a safety signal. And at the end of the day seroprevalence was plenty good enough. But if you want to keep putting your body to work based on idiotic guidance by public health officials. By all means. Be a part of the 15%…

 

I'm not sure if you're basing your claims on anecdotes, but I DO know Ochsner Health in New Orleans had almost 100% compliance with the vaccine and subsequent boosters up to at least when we left for Virginia. Anecdotally, I've never had a primary or specialist physician ever tell me to not take the vaccine or otherwise warn against some nebulous health effects.

What I said was completely on-topic. Vaccine denial is science denial and not rational. It's fine to ask questions. It's good to seek out well-supported and vetted information. It's not okay to peddle nonsense and conflate it with good reasoning.

 

I'm going to leave this thread with a personal story of science denial that revolves around the left.

In a former life, I designed and constructed hydraulic fracturing wells in the Marcellus shale. Work there was... controversial. There were regular claims that gas drilling was the sole culprit in water quality issues, accusations of using "toxic" sand (lol) in frakking operations, and strange claims that a water treatment plant that was built was a sham.

There were kernels of truth in some of this, but most was BS based in "documentaries" like Gasland and claims by ignorant people who didn't understand the science or operations taking place. We had Cornell students lay in front of our yard to keep us from dispatching to location. Tires were slashed. People were harassed. There was one instance in particular where a human chain blocking our yard's exit kept a pump truck from getting to location when a well was blowing out. It didn't matter how exhaustive I explained to protestors that they were putting people in danger. They were charged with ignorant righteousness and obstinate stubbornness. Thankfully, we were able to contact a competitor to cover the work before the pad caught fire.

I helped engage with the community and did my best to be honest. Problems with groundwater contamination were caused by smaller operators resorting to construction grade cheap cement, poor additives, and limited testing. In addition, some were using non-API casing that was, well, utter garbage. We had the Lessons Learned and tried to steer PA DNR to rewrite regulations to prevent these idiot operators from wrecking an industry that brought needed work to an impoverished region. We had the science behind us. We had the evidence. It didn't matter. People still protested and state governments didn't want the hassle. It got exhausting and I was tired of dealing with it. I later found another job.

Science denial is a human issue. Complex subjects are uncomfortable and we tend to default to simple ideas and conclusions for various reasons. None of us are immune to this.

It's no different with vaccines and the rigorous work performed by epidimiologists and scientists involved in their development. It's precisely the same when science deniers wax that cancer treatments are just lies peddled by "Big Pharmacy" or whatever.

TL;DR? The issue isn't science; it's in our inability to admit we don't understand every complex thing where we lack expertise and the unwillingness to humble ourselves in front of those who do. We also have a chronic tendency to dig in our hells and make changing our minds on [issue] a personal affront. I wish we all made the decision to check ourselves on this.

 

Still on you’re anti-science, anti-vax, pro-ivermectin.

 

We ignored science from the beginning. I went to my doctor as a healthy young male in September of 2021. The height of taking the shot. He did not even bring the subject up. It took me asking why I should take the shot. He had seen the data out of Israel. He knew the risk to me. But he also had to be careful at the time and I understood this. At the end of the day...He said. The only shot I have confidence in is Moderna (Israel had shown Pfizer failed). And left it to me to make a decision. I can basically guarantee you that he is glad I made the decision not to take the shot.

So much damage has been done by the policies put forth. It will take decades to build back trust. Doctors right now have nowhere to go for good guidance. The cdc is complete garbage right now. It is a travesty. Doctors know this.

If you want to ignore seroprevalence and natural immunity like the idiots running public health. If you want to take a shot that provides almost no benefit based on that and has safety signals. Go for it. If you want to jab your kid with this...I highly recommend against it but that is your choice.

The data has been there from the beginning. I would have recommended high risk groups take the shot in the beginning. As we learn more I think that might be a wrong position at the time. But at that time a high risk individual that had not contracted covid imo should have taken the shot. I watched a close friend deal with acute kidney failure after taking two doses of pfizer. Can I say the shots were 100% the reason? Absolutely not. But I absolutely think they were a contributing factor. Thankfully they are doing good today after one of the scariest things we have been through. Part of why I think I was wrong that everyone should have taken this shot at the beginning now though I would have recommended our friend take it at the time.

The fact we have and continue to have a one size fits all guidance on this disease is the definition of anti-science and anti-medicine. Medicine is extremely complicated. And what works for one person. May not work for another. And here we are trying to still push shots in children. We will not let one of the healthiest people alive who has twice had covid enter our country. So you do what you need to do. Be a part of the 15% if you must. But spare me the idea I have not walked this terrible disease with caution and prudence.

 

LOL.

Never taken ivermectin. Never intend to take ivermectin. Absolutely will never take these shots now.

But if you are part of the 15% that wants to keep putting your body to work unnecessarily. Bernie is fighting with Moderna to bring the cost down for you lol.

 

Been out for a spell... work trip and all.

//We ignored science from the beginning. I went to my doctor as a healthy young male in September of 2021. The height of taking the shot. He did not even bring the subject up. It took me asking why I should take the shot. He had seen the data out of Israel. He knew the risk to me. But he also had to be careful at the time and I understood this. At the end of the day...He said. The only shot I have confidence in is Moderna (Israel had shown Pfizer failed). And left it to me to make a decision. I can basically guarantee you that he is glad I made the decision not to take the shot.//

Anecdotes =/= Evidence.

//So much damage has been done by the policies put forth. It will take decades to build back trust. Doctors right now have nowhere to go for good guidance. The cdc is complete garbage right now. It is a travesty. Doctors know this.//

Cite your claims. Your impressions of a situation are not evidence.

//The data has been there from the beginning. I would have recommended high risk groups take the shot in the beginning. As we learn more I think that might be a wrong position at the time. But at that time a high risk individual that had not contracted covid imo should have taken the shot. I watched a close friend deal with acute kidney failure after taking two doses of pfizer. Can I say the shots were 100% the reason? Absolutely not. But I absolutely think they were a contributing factor. Thankfully they are doing good today after one of the scariest things we have been through. Part of why I think I was wrong that everyone should have taken this shot at the beginning now though I would have recommended our friend take it at the time.//

Cite your claims. Your impressions of a situation are not evidence.

//The fact we have and continue to have a one size fits all guidance on this disease is the definition of anti-science and anti-medicine. Medicine is extremely complicated. And what works for one person. May not work for another. And here we are trying to still push shots in children. We will not let one of the healthiest people alive who has twice had covid enter our country. So you do what you need to do. Be a part of the 15% if you must. But spare me the idea I have not walked this terrible disease with caution and prudence.//

Let me paraphrase: "Medicine is complicated and I don't have an understanding of the field beyond my own anecdotes, presuppositions, and conspiracy theories."

It's amazing, though. If folks like you dominated the polio era, we'd have never eradicated the virus in the US. It was "clean water" that made it go away.

You continue to wax the very definition of Dunning-Kruger and think that makes you an expert. In that vein, I declare myself officially a college football coach because I can drink beer and shout at my television when a coach makes what I think, as a super expert, a bad call.

It's little wonder that we're headed for a world where Brawndo has what plants crave...

 

You are part of the 10-15% still clearly. You will get there…

It is getting closer to 10% every day!

 

He’s quoting someone else I believe.

 

Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug. It has absolutely no indications for use against viral infections. Republicans pushed it for the same 2 reasons they do anything: (1) their yellow god said so, and (2) the Democrats don't do it. For 4 years under Trump, the GOP tried to kill every law and policy enacted under Obama, for their battle cry: "Because the Black guy did it!" But since the mid-'90s, their larger strategy (and only actual policy) is to block anything the Democrats support (even if they support it more than the Dems).

Of course Trump pushed hydroxychloroquine and regeneron much harder, because of one of the only 2 reasons he does anything: grift. He is financially staked in Sanofi & Regeneron. His only other reason for doing anything in life, of course, is sexual predation.

 

Translation: You’ve got nothing when confronted with the facts. Nothing new here. Keep waxing on with the same tired retorts, though!

 

Actually I posted reality and got nothing in a response. Kind of like what you do. Provide nothing but attack the person baselessly…

 

Reality based on not actual facts or studies, but simply delusion by an individual so far gone he posts studies that actually counter his argument and doesn’t realize it, lol. Continue with your typical talking points, though. We know there is no reaching you at by this point. I’m sure you’ll post another Dr. Drew video here soon.

 

The problem I have is that an honest discussion about ivermecton or hydroxychloroquine was never allowed. I got both types of covid shots plus the boosters as did my wife. She still got covid after all the shots and had a much worse time of it then she did the first time before shots were available.
On a side note concerning hydroxychloroquine, our son's mother in law, who has severe arthritis with major pain every day, recently started on hydroxychloroquine due to her doctor. It has resulted in the most pain relief she has experienced in several years enabling her to actually sleep through the night.

 

When taken for RA, Plaquenil is a very effective and wonderful drug. Many years of research and studies have proven its usefulness in combatting arthritis. Covid, on the other hand? Absolutely not.

 

You should watch them. But I understand you are afraid to be challenged and understand what the science says and has said…