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Haley Responds to Pelosi’s Climate Committee: Does Protecting God’s Creation Include Babies?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by flgator2, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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  2. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    I think a lot of the responses here make it quite clear that railing against abortion isn't really about the sanctity of life, about insuring that children are given every opportunity to have a full and happy life ... it's a political issue whose primary purpose is just to call the other side immoral murderers.
    that's all it is.
     
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  3. gatornana

    gatornana Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Anti-abortion folks don't want to know what it entails or means.....it's easy to find out but they would rather say it's for "convenience". The point of it all is to bash women.

    Losing a baby or late termination is devastating. Women who have experienced this deserve compassion not being told they went through this for "convenience". That's insulting considering their loss.
     
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  4. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Sound bites are always better than details.
     
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  5. gatornana

    gatornana Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Keeps them ignorant and angry.
     
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  6. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    Duchen: You are wrong on this one. Read the article. The key phrase is endangering the health of the mother, which is subjective and could mean anything. Mother’s life is not the standard. It doesn’t say mother’s life and endangering the health. It says mother’s life OR endangering the health.
     
  7. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Many of us are in favor of handing out contraceptives. That's why we support Planned Parenthood.
     
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  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    "If you can't afford a lawyer and want one appointed to represent you in your criminal case, you must relinquish your right to refuse to testify. If you refuse to relinquish that right, you must pay for your own lawyer." That's analogous to what you're proposing. Both are unconstitutional.
     
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  9. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Welfare is not a right, it is a govt program. A program that the govt can set the requirements to be able to use it.
     
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  10. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Read the discussion among the doctors about what “endangering the health” means with respect to when an abortion, as opposed to a live north, are justified. Very narrow set of circumstances. Presumably, then, you are opposed to abortions when a mother's health is “endangered?” The mother has to wait until her life is threatened? What are the acceptable risks to suport no abortion? Brain damage? Paralysis?
     
  11. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    The government cannot set unconstitutional requirements.
     
  12. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    The law is self explanatory. Anything goes at any time as long as you have a willing abortion doctor. If you think it's OK to abort a baby in the 8th month because the mother decides at that time she may get anxiety having to take care of another kid, then this law will allow it.
     
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  13. gatornana

    gatornana Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Evidently, you missed the link duchen provided up thread:

    Likewise, when conditions progress or appear that severely compromise a woman's health or life, abortion may be the safest, medically indicated procedure. These conditions can also reduce the possibility of fetal survival. They might include premature rupture of membranes (where the fluid surrounding the fetus is lost before labor), uterine infection, preeclampsia, placental abruption and placenta accreta. Women under these circumstances may have extensive blood loss or septic shock that can be fatal.

    It's important to note, if a woman's health or life is at risk and the fetus is viable, delivery is pursued, not abortion.

    In the case of either lethal fetal anomalies or complications that endanger a woman's life, it's essential that women and their physicians are able to consider the full range of appropriate treatments, whether that's abortion care, induction of labor or cesarean birth. Every pregnant woman's situation and medical condition are different, and there is no way to make a one-size-fits-all determination about the appropriate care.

    No matter what, care must be compassionate and recognize that for many women, the choices they are facing are devastating and immensely complicated.

    Before judging 'late-term abortion,' understand what it means, doctors say
     
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  14. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    You really think poor people shouldn't be allowed to have kids? You do realize that lots of poor people are Republican right?
     
  15. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    Evidently, you missed reading the actual law.

    § 2599-AA. ABORTION. 1. A HEALTH CARE PRACTITIONER LICENSED, CERTI-
    FIED, OR AUTHORIZED UNDER TITLE EIGHT OF THE EDUCATION LAW, ACTING WITH-
    IN HIS OR HER LAWFUL SCOPE OF PRACTICE, MAY PERFORM AN ABORTION WHEN,
    ACCORDING TO THE PRACTITIONER'S REASONABLE AND GOOD FAITH PROFESSIONAL
    JUDGMENT BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE PATIENT'S CASE: THE PATIENT IS WITHIN
    TWENTY-FOUR WEEKS FROM THE COMMENCEMENT OF PREGNANCY, OR THERE IS AN
    ABSENCE OF FETAL VIABILITY, OR THE ABORTION IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE
    PATIENT'S LIFE OR HEALTH.

    The law says NOTHING about delivery being pursued. Some of you like to put feel good stuff that doesn't exist in the law into what you think it says. I know that the compassionate reading of it is helpful for condoning a barbaric procedure. I happen to believe aborting a baby in the 8th month of pregnancy is barbaric.

    The facts are that the PRACTITIONER decides what threatens health, there is no standard for that, and it could be anything the PRACTITIONER says it is. So my statement stands that it's legal for an abortion to occur, even in the 8th month, for a reason that is decided that may affect health, whether serious or not.. because PROTECT THE PATIENT'S LIFE OR HEALTH could mean anything
     
  16. gatornana

    gatornana Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007

    Let's face it, you don't trust medical professionals or mothers to make these decisions.
     
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  17. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    the decisions should be made by politicians?
     
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  18. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    What does "trust" have to do with anything? I trust the mother may decide she doesn't want the baby, even in the 8th month. I also trust there would be a 'medical professional' out there who would agree that if the mother had the baby it may adversely affect her health, and I also trust that there is a 'medical professional' out there who would do the procedure.

    I also trust that what I consider barbaric, aborting a baby in the 8th month of pregnancy, others may consider routine and justify by a very low standard for adverse health effects.
     
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  19. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    Nah, not "in effect" abortion on demand. This is heading toward death panels level exaggeration. It does give medical professionals the right and responsibility to make that decision, as they do in pretty much all other facets in performing medical procedures. This is why they train and have licensing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  20. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    A mother "just deciding" to have an abortion in month 8 or 9 in of a pregnancy just does not happen. Basically a red-herring from the anti-abortion activists. Dear Donald Trump: I'm an OB-GYN. There are no 9-month abortions.
     
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