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Germany's Days as an Industrial Power are Coming to an End

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Feb 10, 2024.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The decoupling of Germany from Russia's oil and gas has hastened something that was happening slowly anyway: Germany's industrial sector cannot compete with the rest of the world because of energy costs. Merkel put one nail in the coffin with her emphasis on alternative energy at all costs, installing wind turbines and solar panels at a rapid pace while driving up the cost of electricity to force conservation. Industry in Germany pays about $0.22/kW-h, while consumers pay as much as $0.61/kW-h (industry in the U.S. may pay as little as $0.07/kW-h in some states, while the most expensive states for power charge consumers $0.30/kW-h or so). Other countries have improved their industrial technology to become competitive with Germany.

    Germany's industry will die a slow death, of course, as there are some things that Germany can make that the rest of the world cannot make, and they can command large prices on these items.

    Germany’s Days as an Industrial Superpower Are Coming to an End

     
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  2. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    I can see this being a setback and reset for Germany but I’d be hesitant to write them off.
     
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  3. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    Was on this lift yesterday....only 1 I've ever seen....it's German....don't know why it hasn't caught on...it was cold & I rather enjoyed the bubble.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. ElimiGator

    ElimiGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I am living the end result of this. As an owner of German made production equipment, the cost of anything from them is putting them out of contention for parts or future adventures.
     
  5. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    I've bought not 1 but 2 orange, all wheel drive Tiguans recently....for my kids. doing my pt to help em.
     
  6. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    I really wish they imported the diesel TDI Tiguans here. I'd of put my wife in one
     
  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Germany just exceeded 50% renewable energy production. They are decoupling from nat gas so this may be a temporary issue
     
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  8. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    She killed their nuclear energy sector and went with coal/LNG for some reason. I remember seeing that all over the news a few years ago. Who is giving this advise to these people? Once you already have nuclear power why expend all the time and cash to re-do your energy infrastructure? I mean... if you want green energy, fine, but why not have all of the above... have it with nuclear power too? ALL OF THE ABOVE WORKS JUST FINE. Never put all your eggs in one basket.
     
  9. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Exactly. The basic premise of the op is flawed. Converting to renewables might be painful in the short term, but they will be ahead of the curve, both in terms of energy independence and environmental concerns.
     
  10. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Legend

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    It was obvious before the sanctions on Russia were enacted that they woulrd cause great harm to German industry. Hopefully Germans have learned a lesson or two. Don't blindly do what Erica tells you to do. Get thet getting Russian energy again. This is what will happen pipelines repaired. Star
     
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  11. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Looks like a dopplemyer which I think is swiss? Dunno.

    There's a few of those back east. I find them annoying more than helpful. They have their moments...
     
  12. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Germany Unemployment:

    upload_2024-2-11_8-29-14.png

    Doest seem like an issue comparatively. Every economy shifts towards optimal industry output. Wont the Germans simply continue to optimize?
     
  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We work with a German manufacturer of large, high-temperature chemical reactors. They aren't going anywhere. The only other manufacturer that can come close to competing with them is in India, and their designs have some limitations. We also work with a chemical factory in Germany that makes very basic commodity chemicals. With high energy costs, high labor costs, and fairly high levels of government regulations, plus some processing equipment from the 1930's, they just can't compete with the rest of the world. I don't think they will last long.

    Germany is not as friendly to industry as it used to be. One example: industrial trucks cannot be on the road on weekends. The Germans want to make sure that the roads are safe for families on the weekends, and that everyone has enough time off. That means your 24-7 factory has to have additional storage to store raw materials going into the weekend, and products made throughout the weekend. Your product tanks need to be reduced to minimal levels on Friday, and not over-filled by Monday morning. It adds cost to the company's bottom line. Other countries do not have this limitation.

    One thing that surprised me on my last vacation in Germany: parts of the autobahn (especially south of Frankfurt) are severely over-crowded by trucks. I think the trucks are forced to pull over in these areas during certain times of the day, because there were lines of trucks pulled over that stretched for tens of miles in some areas.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2024
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  14. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    Don't they have a massive railroad system to compensate for the lack of weekend access to the roads?
     
  15. ElimiGator

    ElimiGator GC Hall of Fame

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    It’s just weird to read a machine quote that says ….”Due to the war in Ukraine and high energy costs, lead time cannot be guaranteed.” I just received a delivery on Friday that was due last July! They build good $hit if you can actually use it.
    Trucking is banned on Sundays and Holidays for large trucks. Saturdays during July and August have rules in some areas but they don’t just shut down because of family. Europe is a madhouse from July-August and the companies are staffed by ghosts or at least they split up the their holiday time during August.

    Maybe there’s a better link out there but this is what I see and hear most.
    Bundesportal | Truck driving ban on Sundays and public holidays, as well as on Saturdays during the main holiday period: exemption permit

     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Not really, no. They do have freight rail, yes, but many products only go out in trucks. Their passenger rail system (including HSR) is more developed than the U.S., but their freight rail cannot compete with the U.S. in capacity or efficiency. And freight rail transport is generally reduced on the weekend, and greatly reduced on Sundays. And, with a lot of products, a business will need to select one form of transportation and not change back and forth (it adds cost if they don't do enough business with each transportation company). A railcar loading/unloading facility is typically slightly different than a truck facility, so you typically can't have them both in the same place--so that adds cost.

    German freight on weekends?
     
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  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Germany has a lot of strengths in manufacturing and engineering, but it also has some weaknesses. Only 19% of the population of Germany has access to high-speed internet (fiber-optic cable), compared to 56% of the rest of the EU. Germany was busy spending money on windmills and solar panels (in a country that does not get much sunlight). Cars are their biggest export item, but Chinese cars, especially BVD electric cars, are taking over market share right now. China's auto exports passed Germany's in 2022.

    Analysis: Europe’s growth engine is sputtering. Can Germany’s economy be revived? | CNN Business

     
  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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  19. LimeyGator

    LimeyGator Official Brexit Reporter!

    One thing I'd suggest doing, is never write off the Germans.

    Malaise now goes beyond just their borders, but if I'm backing a horse to come out of it near the front of the pack it'll be them. Too much smarts and common sense.