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Forbes article on Electric Vehicles

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by defensewinschampionships, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. thegator92

    thegator92 Premium Member

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    This kind of pro-fossil fuel rebuttal reminds me of the aphorism "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good". Yes, there is pollution involved with making EV cars, just as with ICE cars. No one is claiming EV cars are completely pollution free in all aspects. So we just throw our hands up and return to late-60s gas guzzlers? But there seems to be intentional blindness to the fact that once made, EV cars produce no air pollution on their own, and if they happen to be getting power from a fossil-fuel source, the amount is far, far, far smaller than what is required to drill, refine, transport, and sell gasoline. On the other hand, I live ten miles from a nuclear plant, so none of my electricity comes from coal or natural gas, so what about people like me? If there is going to be a detailed breakdown of every ounce of carbon emission, I don't see that taken into account.

    I own a Tesla Model 3. It is hands-down the best car I have ever owned. Now, I haven't had luxury cars or anything, my previous vehicle was a Nissan Maxima. But the Tesla is the fastest, best handling, most comfortable, well-made vehicle I've ever been in. It's very roomy inside and a huge trunk. It has a computer screen I can watch Netflix or play video games while I'm waiting on something. It has a range just shy of 300 miles, which is the same as my Maxima. The longest recharge I've had at a super-charger station when it was almost dead is 18 minutes. Which was just enough time for us to go to a bathroom and buy a snack, like any other pit stop. I would recommend this car to anyone unless you need to carry large loads of stuff and need a pickup or SUV. I have a plug-in unit at home, which takes about 3 hours, and is set to charge in the middle of the night when it's cheapest. Without long road trips, just going to work, I charge it about twice a month.

    I imagine in ten years my car will seem like a dinosaur as quickly as the technology is improving. The European cars are taking their time to come here, but I did drive an Audi EV which was similar to the Q7 large SUV body and it was great, so I expect competition for Tesla to pick up real soon.
     
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  2. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    Does it really only take 20 minutes to recharge? I am guessing that would not be a full recharge?
     
  3. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    ~38% of EV owners have rooftop solar.

    EV Ownership + Rooftop Solar Ownership — New Report & Charts

    I doubt there's any danger to the grid from electric cars.
     
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  4. thegator92

    thegator92 Premium Member

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    Yes, usually a bit less. Now, this is at the Tesla super-charging stations, there are other companies that make chargers in parking garages and so on which take 4-5 hours. The superchargers supply power at 150 kw, compared to 22 kw for the Tesla home charger.

    On a road trip last year the range on my car was down to 20 something and flashing red when I got to the station, and it took 18 minutes to get to a full-charge, which is 290 the way I have my battery set. There was no one else at the other stalls, so maybe that cut a couple minutes off the time.

    The stations are all over the country, and the onboard computer will tell you where they are and how many stalls are being used, and will make recommendations for stops when you plot a course. For fun I plotted a trip from Charlotte to Los Angeles, and it would take 23 hours, with 12 stops at charging stations.

    The money charge for a full electric charge at a station is around 5 dollars, while getting a full tank of gas for my wife's car with a little more range is usually 70 dollars.
     
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  5. WC53

    WC53 GC Legend

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    The hazmat nature of battery and solar cell production is real. As is the recycling of those products at the end of their life span. A few large batteries could poison a water supply.

    Like anything else, planning and better technology for cleaner production. Recycling paid for at purchase with infrastructure set up for it. Current systems where production ignores End of life issues (And costs) should be seriously examined.

    Allegedly we are smart and should be able to have scientists solve these issues. #Math > Q
     
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  6. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 Premium Member

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    30 years ago the internet didn't exist. I don't think we can even fathom the technological advances we will have achieved by 2050. I doubt we will be using the same batteries needed to currently power electric cars.
     
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  7. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Yes, and the hazmat nature of oil extraction, delivery, and refinery are real. I agree, external costs should be incorporated / considered in all products.
     
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  8. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    Had no idea. That's pretty cool.
     
  9. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    I don't own one, but have driven a few. I you ever get a chance to drive one, don't turn it down. It will change your perspective of what a car can be.
     
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  10. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

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    I think most advances in the future will be more evolutionary than revolutionary. And the internet did exist 30 years ago, or at least, the infrastructure did. DARPA dates to 1958, ARPANET to 1969. Is the present that much radically different from 1990? Not really. Everything we have now existed in some nascent form then. The most revolutionary idea was simply combining the cell phone, Walkman and computer, which all existed then. Nothing about the present was unfathomable in 1990 lol. Indeed, an affordable electric car was even on the horizon, which the fossil fuel industry worked to kill.
     
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  11. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Say wha? Yes, yes it is.

    I can start my car with my phone. Change the temperature at my house while on the other side of the world - with my voice. That was total scifi in 1990. Christ, our rocket's launch themselves now. Human hands off at t-:60

    If I were to break down all of human history into decades and rank the rate of change, it would look something like this:

    Every decade before the 1910s: 0 - 2
    1910 - 1920: 7
    20 - 30: 2
    30 - 40: 2
    40 - 50: 6
    60 - 70: 3
    70 - 80: 4
    90 - 00: 7
    00 - 10: 8
    10 - 20: 7

    Being imaginable and being real are two different things. Ancient civs imagined flying to the moon....
     
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  12. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    There is only one compelling reason for going electric and that is to have point source pollution. That is IT. I wonder who thinks that is a good idea, the users of independently operated vehicles or those who likes things "under wraps"? Hmm...

    So electric power plants, including the manufacture and distribution of the fuel, don't pollute? The old batteries don't pollute? The manufacture of said infrastructure does not cause pollution? There aren't losses in the electrical distribution system that generates heat? That is superior to an internal combustion engine? By whose standard?

    Like I said, those "whose" are the ones who like things "under wraps".
     
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  13. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    So you don't go on extended trips? Or you have time to wait at the "gas station" in Podunk to recharge your ecar so that your trip is quite extended? And you don't need the variety of a pickup or SUV to go with your urban vehicle? Good for you.

    Now for the rest of us...
     
  14. beemerthegator

    beemerthegator All American

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    Identification of the author is probably more revealing that anything stated in the article.
     
  15. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    These are some 2014 talking points. To be this naive about the efficiency and effectiveness of, and against the adaptation towards EVs at this point is just willful ignorance.
     
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  16. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, all you have to do is look at the metoric rise of the tech companies. I think a lot of what we have now could have been projected in the 90s, but no one expected it to happen so fast.

    Really, I think it took until about 2010 to really understand the changes that Smartphones would make on society. Prior to that point, the iPhone was a novelty and most "srs business" users had extremely limited BlackBerries that weren't good for much beyond email and text. Phones were still phones for the most part.

    But then Apple and Samsung were able to put everything you could want into a single package, pretty much over night. We went from phones being phones to devices that interface with every aspect of our lives in the blink of an eye. Fast processors, big screens, long battery life, GPS, easy to use touch screen interfaces, 4G, and an explosion of Apps all within a year or two. Looking back, it's really incredible how they were able to pull it all together.

    Back in the mid 2000s, I was thinking about buying a radio that came with a lifetime subscription to XM Radio. If you would have told me that in less than 10 years, I'd be able to instantly stream all the music I could ever want from anywhere with a $100 phone . . . and that it would be a relatively minor feature on that phone . . . I'd have told you that you were out of your mind. And I spent my spare time back then reading tech news.
     
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  17. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    I'd say the iPhone (2007) started moving people off blackberries pretty quick, but yeah, I agree with all this. We had a PC in our hand that had access to all the knowledge ever accumulated in the history of humanity, plus games and porn. It forever changed human behavior, society, and even physiology.

    Interestingly, and why I dinged the 10s for a point, is one could argue we've sort of stalled from a revolutionary standpoint a bit. Maybe to wgb's point, we've only pushed forward existing tech. There hasn't been a real breakthrough in personal computing since the iPhone.

    The big gains now are in AI and ML which is leading to things like advanced space exploration, self driving cars, and data analytics that are beyond comprehension (for better or worse on this point).
     
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  18. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    What am I missing? In 2014 it took 3 hours to charge an anemic battery system after driving 100 miles but today, your kick-ass, $80k Tesla Tiny Tot can go 200 miles (give or take) before sitting for 20-30 minutes at a "gas" station...if there is one at the end of this journey...so that you can go another 200 miles...hopefully towards a destination that has one of those charger thingy's. That is naïve? REALLY???

    As I posted, if the poster I replied to has that going for them then...good for them. What about the rest of us? Are YOU prepared to buy a Tesla Tiny Tot for $80k so that you get the privilege of sitting at the station - IF there is one - for WAY more time than what a regular fill-up takes. So that you can go 200 miles? Oh, and if this idea catches on then those quaint charger thingy's WILL become used a LOT and so you will likely have to wait until one is finished. So that 20 minute time may become 45 minutes, give or take.

    So...please educate me as to what has evolved since 2014 in the way of making and distributing electricity? I am not talking about the storage system I am talking about those smelly, icky, factories and those wiry thingy's that fry squirrels and hot air balloons. You know, those things that the tree huggers hate?

    I think you and I have a difference of opinion on what is naïve. Perhaps I will just go with misguided.
     
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  19. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    You're just embarrassing yourself. Try 350 mile range for $40K.

    I could keep going on your other points, but it kinda looks like you're not really interested in understanding the current state of things.
     
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  20. 14serenoa

    14serenoa Living in Orange and surrounded by Seminoles... Premium Member

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    Charging stations are not just everywhere you can find a gas station...the 'time' to recharge on a long trip may be inconvenient, and will there be charging stations at every hotel? maybe we can make the hybrid even more efficient, while the EV supplies and convenience increases.