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For those defending White on offense

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by hatter18, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    northern MN
    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    He has a play sheet similar to a football coach. He was pissed. Gathered himself and called the play he liked off of his sheet.
    You are annoying as always.
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  3. 108

    108 Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    White's biggest downfall has been his lack of recruiting offensively skilled bigs that are ready to contribute..
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  4. BA69MA72

    BA69MA72 GC Legend

    Apr 8, 2007
    Wow, haven’t heard that point before
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  5. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

    Apr 10, 2007
    Let's look at White's recruits/additions since he has arrived and see who has/has not "met/exceeded" expectations:

    Hester - Nope. A flop. Most figured he wasn't SEC caliber player, and his recruitment was a reflection White's scrambling to pull a couple players very late.

    Bassett - N/A. Has spent most of his career injured. He sat out his entire first year with injury, and returned to very limited playing time a year ago. He is now a sophomore, and in his first season that he entered fully healthy.

    Leon - Exceeded. Most figured the juco who followed Mike from La Tech would contribute very little. He developed into a very good player and instrumental to the Elite 8 run.

    Gak - N/A. He has spent virtually his entire career either playing injured or on the sideline - which is where is now.

    Barry - Exceeded. Huge part of Florida's Elite 8 team, and named SEC 6th Man Of Year.

    Koulechov - Exceeded. Led team in rebounding w/ 6.4 rpg and averaged 13.8 ppg.

    Stokes - N/A. Sat out his entire first year rehabbing a knee injury. He is now playing his first year, and is slowly getting additional minutes as his rehab and conditioning allows.

    Hudson - Exceeded/Failed. The tale of two seasons. . . both of which we are familiar.

    Chase Johnson - N/A. Endless concussions. . . didn't play, off the team.

    Okauru - Tough call . . . I am not sure what the expectations were for a kid we added so late as a filler for the departed Shai. I think he is a good player and could be having a better year, but is losing minutes to a few players.

    Ballard - Exceeded. He has turned into a nice player, who I think has earned more minutes. He clearly improved over the offseason.

    Nembhard - Exceeded. Stepped in big shoes and huge minutes. . . and has generally been very good.

    Locke- Exceeded. Has been outstanding on both ends, especially of late. Has been way better defensively than expected, and has become an aggressive, much needed scorer. He is agruably Florida's go-to player right now.

    Keyontae Johnson - Exceeded. I think most presumed he would come in rather raw and would need a year before contributing, but has had an impact right away.

    So by my count:

    N/A - 4

    Toss up - 1 (Okauru)

    Failed to meet - 2 (Hester/Hudson)

    Exceeded - 6

    To me, this clearly suggests that ... barring massive injury . . . CMW has done really well with the guys he has brought in.

    @wci347 - would you dispute any of those categorizations?
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  6. GatorPlanet

    GatorPlanet GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 15, 2007
    Maitland, FL
    Actually, from what I saw, Hester was on his way to becoming an elite defender.
  7. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

    Apr 10, 2007
    This is true. Though he didn’t meet expectations as it relates to his Gators career.... and for reasons not attributable to injury.

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
  9. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    When you look at the term "well" you have to measure it to a standard. Is it well to what we had become accustomed to? Is it well compared to other SEC teams? Is it well compared to national rankings?

    I think once you apply "MW" has done well to any of the above standards his recruiting has been a bust. You cannot even really count transfers because they were not traditionally "recruited" and have by virtue of their previous status, limited eligibility. Not applicable means fail in my book.

    Maybe I am watching a different team than everyone else is watching, but there are fundamental flaws that should not be evident in a team that has Hayes, Stone, Allen, and Hudson all as upperclassmen and all who have competed in the NCAA tournament. A strong argument can be made that if it were not for the underclassmen- Johnson, Nembhard, Ballard, Okauru and Locke we would be significantly under .500 right now. While that bodes well for MW's recruiting recently, the team simply cannot rely on a core of underclassmen whose largest person is 6'6".

    Two games into the SEC and we have played one team largely viewed as the bottom of the league in South Carolina and another team that is the youngest in the NCAA. In each game there were significant SIGNIFICANT moments where the more poised, experienced, confident and skilled team appeared to be either USCE or UARK. This should not be happening and huge leads with the number of experienced players we have should not evaporate down the stretch the way they are. We should have lost that game last night. If that young team had simply realized how completely discombobulated our team was in the final couple of minutes they would have won going away. Had those players had a year under their belts, they would have easily have handled our experienced team.

    Whom do you blame for this? Layups at crucial moments being missed? Inexplicable turnovers down the stretch? Ineptitude in rebounding when critical stops were achieved on defense? Out of control charges committed in an almost desperate attempt to score? These traits are evident in every game we lose- particularly the ones that require toughness down the stretch! This team lacks toughness across the board! Period. I love my Gators and the program but White has to start feeding them Cayenne Pepper for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Maybe a couple of them should shave their heads and play bald. I don't know the solution, but the word on the street is that we can be rattled very easily and despite all of our talent, we don't play with a true awareness of our abilities consistently. Teams will exploit this unless it is corrected.
  10. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

    Apr 10, 2007
    I don’t know that I would really disagree with your overall point.... and have said many times that we are being failed by our upper class players.
    That seems undeniable.

    But digging deeper- we see the failings of a few older guys is being compounded by members White’s first two classes having not materialized or being injured.

    This compounding effect leaves a huge void.

    What I wil vehemently disagree with is labeing “n/a” players as “fail”. Those players haven’t failed— they have been denied opportunity to succeed (or fail) due to injury. You can’t pin that on White or the players. Doing so is just a desperate attempt to advance an agenda.

    I also find it very interesting that you dismiss the performance of “transfers” as not being attributable to a coach bc they were “not traditionally recruited”. So be it... but that then eliminates Hudson from your arguement, leaving White with no real ownership of the floundering seniors, as he didn’t “traditionally recruit” any of em.

    It seems you have undermined your own position. It leaves you making a case that White is exonnorated from the failings of those you say are failing... and responsible for the success of the only players you cite as succeeding.

    So, should I put you back in the Pro- Mike White camp?
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  11. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    s. e. florida
    Can I ask? What is your motivation in all this? What do you want to see (done)?

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  12. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    White has to start recruiting 6’10” monsters. It is as simple as that. We won two championships because for the most part we had an inside presence that no one else could match in college basketball. Horford, Noah, Richard, Speights, Moss, Sutton. Even our small forward was 6’9”.

    Humphrey and Green enjoyed great shots which Allen, Locke, Hudson, etc. etc. etc. are not getting because opponents had to respect the paint or they were going to be dunked on. It really is very fundamental. No one respects our inside game.

    White has made us into a one dimensional team and that dimension happens to be the one that comes with the lowest percentage of success and requires the greatest expenditure of energy.

    One reason why we fade near the end of games is because we don’t get easy shots. We are more fatigued because our points have to come off of intense defense which leads to turnovers which is draining our outside shooting which wears down the legs.

    White is one of the best in America recruiting 6’7” down. He has to develop that same ability to recruit 6’9” and up and we will see a realistic return of Florida dominance in basketball.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  13. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

    Mar 5, 2017
    It's a one dimensional market. High school bigs are too busy trying to be 3-point shooters that there are hardly any fundamentally sound post players anymore, and those who have been taught well are getting snagged by the blue bloods. If I were coaching I'd only recruit international post players. You see Michigan and Gonzaga taking advantage of that and it's no surprise that these European bigs dominate every year. American kids are falling so far behind on fundamentals because their AAU coaches aren't qualified.
    Also, Donovan was a one in a million type hire, and that team was one of the best of all time. Realistically, the odds of White or any future Gator coach signing a 6'10 monster is slim to none as mentioned above unless we adapt our recruiting strategy. We've been going hard after Scottie Barnes for years but even that might not be enough.
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  14. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    Hey, anybody ever hear of Villanova? They weren't exactly stacked with big's
    either during their 2 championships.

    Sure I would love to have a 7'-1" aircraft carrier that produces 20 - 15 every night but as stated, hard to come by.
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  15. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    s. e. florida
    Thanks for the clarification. I don’t think anyone can disagree. However, it might not be from a lack of effort on CMW’s part trying to land a big (who won’t be injured!)

  16. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    Obviously the memo is not getting through to White!
  17. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    With Villanova you had medium ranged players who all had Humphrey's shooting ability or close to it. When you have streaky shooters as Florida has gotten lately since Humphrey, if you are on it is great. If you aren't it is hard to watch.
  18. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    What country is Daniel Gafford from and does he play for a blue blood? Nicolas Claxton? Aric Holman? This list goes on and on. There are 15 rebounders in the SEC that average more rebounds than any of our "bigs". Two of them are international Shittu and Ogbeide and the only blue blood in our league is Kentucky.

    So some how HCs in the SEC are landing these 6'10" and 6'11" beasts who are grabbing critical rebounds against us when it matters down the stretch, and they are not blue blood programs and they are getting international players. Moreover, none of the teams with the exception of Kentucky has even played for a national championship in the past 20 years let alone won one.

    There is simply no excuse with what MW brings to the table with our program why those bigs should not want to play for our program. Is he even recruiting them?

    Our top scorer ranks 30th in the league in scoring!!! HOW is this possible???? Are we blaming the players? 30th!!!!! 30th!!!!! None of the players scoring more per game are playing for programs that have won anything in decades (except Johnson, Travis and Washington who play for Kentucky). There is a problem here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The saddest thing is that people like Allen, Hudson, Ballard, Locke, Nembhard, Okauru, Johnson, would all look like superstars regularly if we had ONE big who could consistently get 10 points a game and 9 rebounds. We would instantly be on Tennessee's level if we had bigs who could command respect under the boards and who could generate enough power to impact the game under the boards.

    We just don't have that. So if our outside shooters bail us out, we will win some games against top teams, but if our perimeter game is sub par to average, we are going to continue to lose a lot of big games to top teams.
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  19. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 26, 2007
    It kinda blows my mind that there is so much negative sentiment towards White. The team was 16-17 and in disarray the year before he arrived. Since then, 2 tournament bids, a 4-2 tournament record, and 2 very good recruiting classes in a row. Sure, this season's been a little tough so far, but geez...
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  20. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    s. e. florida
    Even BD struggled with getting top bigs into the program. At least, many on this board would lament such each recruiting cycle.

    I’m curious to see post-FBI investigation, if UF’s recruiting fortunes improve.
    • Agree Agree x 1