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Flynn - Kislyak Transcripts

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8rnbft, May 29, 2020.

  1. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm reposting this podcast because it is worth a listen. Lake and Wittes layout out their disagreements in a thoughtful calm way. This was pre-transcripts release.

    The Lawfare Podcast: Eli Lake Makes the Case for Flynn

    There are a couple main points they disagree over:

    1. The predict for the Flynn interview by the FBI. Lake thinks that the FBI did not have a predict because it was clear that Flynn was not a willing, active agent of the Russian government. And predicts that the transcripts would prove this (which they did) and he was doing what was expected of an incoming NSA. Wittes main argument is he believes the existence of the calls would have been enough to reopen a closed case and that since this call was not done through the State Department it makes eligible to be considered justification to keep the investigation open. Lake disagrees with the idea the case would have been reopened and states that might be true if it was John Smith private citizen but not for an incoming NSA. Wittes admits that the Logan Act would never be used in this case. Lake admits that the Trump transition was unconventional but says the Trump campaign had valid reasons to be wary of coordinating FP calls through the Obama State Dept.

    2. The lie to Pence is another point. Wittes thinks the lie to Pence is a major CI issue and thinks the theory of Trump campaign coordination with the Russians floating around. Lake points out that the FBI agents never ask Flynn what he told Pence and that Flynn had coordinated the call through the transition team. He covers a lot of reasons why this is not a serious reason to keep an investigation open or re-open it.

    3. The DOJ vs FBI actions during January and how Comey handled it. Lake thinks Comey wanted to get Flynn and his actions show that. Wittes thinks this is normal tension between cops and prosecutors. Lake thinks this was Comey inserting himself into the transfer of power. Wittes does not think that Comey was out to get Flynn.

    4. They get into whether Flynn actually lie and the 302, which has been covered here already.

    5. They also get into the letter from 2000 former DOJ employees.

    The big take away on this one is that both sides admit that only a fool would suggest the Logan Act is something to be taken seriously. Wittes actually states "...never in a million years would you contemplate charging someone with the Logan Act."

    I think Lake does a great job showing why any concern about a CI issue over Flynn's lie to Pence is not a big deal but that is a personal opinion.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  2. gogata125

    gogata125 Junior

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    They do not contradict US foreign policy with an adversarial government. They don't bow and scrape like a toadie to an ambassador. And if they are a former military officer, they don't take actions in contrast to their CIC.
     
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  3. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    Once again, did you read the transcripts and if so, do you think that Flynn was a willing, active agent of the Russian government?

    Until you answer that question, you don't have a lot of a leg to sand on since that was the predict the FBI used to question Flynn.
     
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  4. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    What is US foreign policy? Who decides what it is? How did Flynn contradict it?

    You have clearly not read the transcripts because Flynn definitely does not bow or scrape to SK. Far from it.
     
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  5. mutz87

    mutz87 #glassofwatergate VIP Member

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    Bottom line is Flynn is responsible for lies he told and for his plea.
     
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  6. gaterzfan

    gaterzfan GC Legend

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    To all of the Trump-haters proclaiming the Flynn persecution is some absolutely necessary, profound legal/ethical/moral endeavor


    "What difference, at this point, does it make?”
     
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  7. mutz87

    mutz87 #glassofwatergate VIP Member

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    So you're saying Flynn isn't responsible for lies he told?

    Yes, I hate Trump. He is a terribly amoral, narcississtic human with zero capacity to lead this wanna-be great nation.

    That doesn't mean somehow Flynn isn't responsible for lies he told. No one made him lie. No one made him plea.
     
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  8. pkaib01

    pkaib01 Premium Member

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    a. why go partisan with "trump-haters"?
    b. we are discussing prosecution, not persecution.
    c. who said it was "absolutely" necessary?
    d. among other things, it makes a difference to the FBI in future national security investigations.
     
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  9. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Bingo.

    Flynn lied because he knew that implying by implying the sanctions would be dropped, it would look like Trump was paying a favor back to Russia. Putin helps the Trump campaign, Obama finds out and imposes sanctions, and then that same day Flynn, on behalf of the Trump transition, says, in sum and substance, "don't worry bro, we got your back once we're in office."

    Flynn's mistake was assuming that Republican voters actually cared. In reality, they are happy that Russia intervened on behalf of Trump and are fine with Trump providing favors in return. Frankly, as long as there is not an explicit agreement that would subject him to criminal prosecution, most Republicans are seemingly in favor of aggressive conscious parallelism, where Russia helps the GOP win elections, and then the GOP helps Russia once in power.

    If Flynn knew then what he knows now, I think he would have just proudly admitted his actions. Heck, he probably would have gone on Fox News and spouted off talking points about how there's "no proof" Russia helped Trump, that the Obama admin is just sour grapes sanctioning them, and that the Trump admin will "stop the tit for tat escalation" that has defined Obama's foreign policy. Give a wink and a nod to the camera, Putin gets the message, and sends out a new wave of bot attacks as a "thank you."
     
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  10. LLCoolJ94

    LLCoolJ94 GC Hall of Fame

    Pretty much right on queue:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. altalias

    altalias GC Hall of Fame

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    I have disagreed with the conservative a lot lately (the nation's response to covid and mail in voting for instance) and if any called me stupid I didn't see it.
    One of the moderators mentioned this week that conservatives left in mass a couple of years ago. Now, i understand why.
     
  12. gaterzfan

    gaterzfan GC Legend

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    My point is it’s a ridiculous prosecution that would likely never have been pursued had Obama and pals not been so @bent-out” over Hillary’s hugely unexpected loss. The vast majority of Americans, save a few mindless hyper-partisans so filled with hate for their successor-in-office it rose to a bona fide derangement syndrome, would have dimply ignored the Flynn communications.

    You and your ilk can continue this meaningless pontification concerning Flynn’s crimes, but the vast majority of Americans could care less. It has become a joke and a symptom of TDS, which is far more serious and dangerous than COVID-19.

    You cats need to get a grip and just move own.

     
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  13. gaterzfan

    gaterzfan GC Legend

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    Furthermore, retired general Flynn has done far more for this nation than any of the mindless douche nozzles and the department of justice and FBI that wrong way pursued him and charged him with these meaningless crimes. Who really cares he may have misrepresented matters to either vice president Pence and/or the DOJ/FBI. No harm no foul. This guy is accomplished far more than anyone else involved in this matter especially Obama Biden, Comey, Stzrzozczk, etal.

    This entire Flynn episode only proves that far too many Americans are just simply stuck on stupid.
     
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  14. pkaib01

    pkaib01 Premium Member

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    Define 'vast majority' and share your polling source.
     
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  15. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Do we live in Turkey? He was certainly doing a lot for them...

    He committed a crime. Who knew that yeah, but I like the guy and he is part of my team is an excuse for criminal activity...
     
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  16. gaterzfan

    gaterzfan GC Legend

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    LOL, did you type that without laughing and choking?????

     
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  17. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    it’s the wrong question you’re asking.
    The question is did he break the law.
    The answer is yes obviously so get over it.
     
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  18. gaterzfan

    gaterzfan GC Legend

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    Yeh, a significant crime. What a joke, Can you people continue to waste time on it. Pathetic.

     
  19. gaterzfan

    gaterzfan GC Legend

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    If you don’t know the meaning of vast majority then there is no Need to even try to explain this to someone like you. You just have fun continuing to believe this Flynn persecution is an important issue with Americans.

     
  20. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    It is a felony. I consider that significant. Can you give us a list of nonsignificant felonies?
     
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