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Florida's Fall Off

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by benj6257, May 30, 2020.

  1. benj6257

    benj6257 Recruit

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    Hey everyone, just wrote a post for my site about Florida struggling through the first 5 years under Mike White compared to where the program was at under Donovan. Would love for some more knowledgeable Gator fans than me to check it out and share your thoughts!

    Florida’s Basketball Fall Off
     
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  2. GatorKP

    GatorKP All American

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    Now you did it. Some on this board love Mike White like he's a family member. You're about to hear about it lol. Don't be surprised to see those same posters ripping Billy D to prop up their boy. It happens way to much around here.
     
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  3. 33hoop

    33hoop VIP Member

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    I thought it was a good article.
     
  4. regurgigator

    regurgigator VIP Member

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    I'd go with "reins" rather than "reigns" in the first paragraph.

    I think you're underselling Keyontae Johnson a bit. Most thought he was our best player last season.

    My bar for White is the same I had with Donovan: Make the Tourney almost every season and then anything can happen. He's done that. And, I think he also has a good eye for talent and his recruiting seems to be getting stronger.

    I think I take a much longer view than most*, and I'm not that concerned about last season's team not meeting the preseason expectations everyone placed on them. Although I was excited about the preseason expectations (which I still took with my usual grain of salt), watching some of the new players actually play, I came to believe the preseason expectations were higher than they should have been. That said, I thought we were playing our best ball at season's end, and I was optimistic for a possible run in the tourneys which ultimately got cancelled.

    Regardless (going back to my "longer view than most"), I don't see 2 or 3 seasons as establishing much of a trend - after White did have an Elite Eight run early at UF. However, if the results continue to be nothing but seasons that hang around the Tourney bubble and end in early Tourney exits for what I (although I grant that I'm just a single fan with as little clout as it's possible to have) consider to be a statistically significant span, then I will climb off the White bandwagon. Also, any kind of problems that might start to erode White's ability to recruit could also knock me off the White bandwagon.




    * - I don't consider my longer view to be because I "accept mediocrity" as some with itchy trigger fingers will accuse me. I want championships more than anything, and I'm willing to put my level of anguish over losing up against anyone's. I believe in taking a longer view, because I think it generally leads to more championships than itchy trigger fingers that run coach after coach off at the first sign of adversity. (Although going to the Tourney every season and getting 1 deep run out 3 tries is not what I would call a great deal of "adversity.")
     
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  5. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Thanks for the link and kudos on the article/site!
     
  6. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey GC Hall of Fame

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    “Fall off” might be an agenda driven type headline, imo.

    one could forecast such a situation for almost any other coach following an icon like BD - at least one who doesn’t “cheat”. (That’s a major qualifier, imo).

    We hit the pinnacle with BD. Also had some lows. At our program’s tier, we will have some cycles, imo. Evidenced by BD’s own -especially at the end. You could see his frustration with the whole recruiting scene. (( We just aren’t going to wallow in the mud hole like others. ))

    it’s nice to measure coaches vs BD. Most will come up short in that regard.

    I was certainly disappointed in this past season’s results vs expectations. It did tarnish my view of CMW. But, he has ample opportunity to rectify. Will he? Remains to be seen.

    if anyone “has” to win now, it’s CMW: he cant correct things by taking shortcuts on the recruiting trail like so many others. To me, CMW was on the verge of building something quite nice...it sorta crumbled a bit....and he has to re-work some items, and rebuild a bit, ...will he start to put the finishing touches on it, this year or next? I hope so.
     
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  7. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    I will provide a quality post later.



    Um, do you want my "medicated" reply or a regular knee-jerk (or a jerk of some kind) response? Anyways, it is early Sunday morning and my usual beer breakfast awaits. I just need to stop at one 6-pack if I need to take my meds.
     
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  8. GatorKP

    GatorKP All American

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    How do you figure this? We lost our last game of the season, 2 of our last 3, and were 6-4 in our last 10.

    Here's how our last 10 went.

    UGA- furious rally at home to come from behind and beat the 2nd worst team in the league. (Uga was the 13th seed in the 14 team SEC tourney)

    @ Ole Miss - 17 point blowout loss to the the #12 team in the conference.

    @ Texas A&M - nice win over the SEC's #7 team. The Aggies finished the season 16-14.

    Vanderbilt - home win against the worst team in the league.

    Arkansas - home win against the hogs playing without Isaiah Joe.

    @ Kentucky - road loss against the SEC's best team.

    LSU - nice home win against a team slated for the NCAA tournament.

    @ Tennessee -furious rally to not get blown out in yet another bad loss. TN was the 8th seed.

    @ UGA - completed season sweep against the 2nd worst team in the conference.

    Kentucky - played well for most of the game And then blew it in the end. Tough loss.

    So how exactly were we playing better? Aside from LSU, we beat no other good teams late in the season. And some of our losses were brutal.
     
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  9. Bowiegator

    Bowiegator Junior

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    Great article. I really hope Mike White works out because he seems like such a great guy and just seems like the perfect looking coach.

    I agree with your premise. It is time to take back over our spot as the clear cut top 1 or 2 in SEC which means an elite 8 on avg every other year or so and a final 4 what was it about 1 every 4.something years? Going back to ‘94 (Kruger) through Donovan we had 5 final 4’s correct? I look forward to seeing what White does with this team. I am rooting hard for him but we cannot keep him if our results are 8, 9, or 10 seeds every year. A lot of hard work went into building Florida basketball beginning in the 80’s IMO. Including the hard work of 3 Hall of Fame coaches I believe (Sloan, Kruger, and Donovan). We cannot let one coach take us back to the days of being at the level of the Ole Misses and UGA’s.
    Now why Foley only interviewed White is ridiculous in the first place and why I was glad Foley not AD anymore. Trying to prove you can hire lightning in the bottle once I am fine with but twice is bullsh$t.
    IMO Foley took a crap on the program that Donovan built by only interviewing White. Irrespective of whether White succeeds or not it was disrespectful imo.
    I am rooting hard for white but he needs to show something very quickly. I am losing some patience
     
  10. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    I could not wait for breakfast so I decided that a single 6-pack and meds would be fine. Especially after the beer breakfast binger yesterday. So one to my "quality" posts.

    To me there is always a problem with attempting to evaluate a HOF caliber coach and the next in line. I think the article attempted to make it about the "latter-day Billy" instead of the "take no prisoners Billy" but I would have to say that his last FF was truly a remarkable accomplishment, which a great coach with a LOT of experience is capable of pulling off. I remember Charles Barkley and Co. basically saying our team was kind of like a bumble bee - it isn't supposed to fly and yet here it is - with the idea that no one on our team was in the elite caliber, just a remarkable amount of unselfish players buying into what the coach sold them.

    Simply, college basketball changed with the AAU system and the one-and-done mess. I do believe that Billy still had what it takes to succeed....IF the game were still played on a somewhat level field but he chose to be what he is and what he has wrought as a result of his record of success. He got Kasey Hill and Patric Young. He did NOT get Ben Simmons and Andrew Wiggins.

    Now to Coach White. The system is stacked away from him in the short term. He is Billy but in a much different mindset. Has he won THE big game? Not that I am aware and that may be his ultimate downfall (he keeps things WAY too close to his vest). I want to believe that he is growing as knowing what it takes to 1) implement HIS system against elite competition 2) rely on coaches and not be so "hands-on" and 3) collect talent that fits his system/coaches who are capable of playing at elite levels. AND I hope it is about getting a program built where what you rely on are upperclassmen and not wunderkinds, Florida-caliber. I think he is getting those guys now.

    Now to the reality of the situation. Muschamp MAY have succeeded if he was given enough time...AND he did not have a Ga. Southern loss on his resume. But he did and most likely for a reason. Now will it all come together for Mike? All I will say is he will......THIS YEAR or else he will be perceived to have hit his ceiling. And I do NOT think that is going to keep the program where the supporters want it to be. He got sort of a mulligan with the C-19 abrupt ending and so maybe he will get a 2021/22 "double secret probation" setup. But only if the last two recruiting classes (the sophs and juniors) look eerily like this year's incarnation. Is developing bigs his Achilles' heal? We shall see.

    Time to go. I feel my meds are beginning to wear off. I feel an odd desire to throw my laptop through my picture window.
     
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  11. manigordo

    manigordo GC Hall of Fame

    Gosh, who ever heard of a "fall off" after losing a once in a lifetime coach at a non-blueblood school?

    Despite the protestations of fans who believe UF is on par w/ Ky and Duke, there is nothing wrong with a young, talented coach like MW needing time at a school like Florida to grow into the position. No, it is not an insult to UF to have to allow that. He is not Muschamp.
     
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  12. Bowiegator

    Bowiegator Junior

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    We r not on par with KY and Duke but we are (or were) in the next tier of 8 teams after the 4 or 5 blue bloods. I am all for giving Cmw another year or so but I am starting to lose a little patience but let’s see how this year goes.
     
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  13. regurgigator

    regurgigator VIP Member

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    Ole Miss was certainly our worst loss/performance after conference play started, but the 3 losses (in the last 8 games) against UK and UT were good competitive performances against tough opponents, 2 of them SEC away games which are always difficult. UK played a whale of a game to beat us by 1 point in that last one, and they had one of the nation's best defenses. Yes, I think we were playing very good ball over the last part of the season.
     
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  14. your_perfect_enemy

    your_perfect_enemy GC Hall of Fame

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    That’s so poorly written and edited, it’s hard to even judge the content
     
  15. g8rvet

    g8rvet Premium Member

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    We should give him some time to grow into his job. There are lots of mistakes and although I am no expert, some were even obvious to me. I think it shows that he is not very experienced and while the basis is sound, there is still lots to do to get to a higher level.

    I am talking about the writer.

    I will say I like Coach White very much and sincerely hope he succeeds, but understand folks getting restless and frustrated.
     
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  16. GatorKP

    GatorKP All American

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    We’ll agree to disagree, especially on Tennessee. Those guys were 17-14 overall and 9-9 in the SEC. In conference home games, they were only 5-4. They were definitely an NIT team projected to be only a 4 seed in that tournament.

    Again, 6-4 doesn’t strike me as playing good ball late. Just my thoughts though.
     
  17. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I agree.
    I didn't agree with the content, but give kudos to anyone willing to put himself/herself out there in the form of shared writing.
     
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  18. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    LOL - Think you nailed it for me Te, CMW needs to pick it up and deliver some goods next season. What does that mean?

    lets start with a 24 - 7 regular season and 2nd place in the SEC …….
     
  19. g8wayg8r

    g8wayg8r All American

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    Nobody could have replaced BD.

    There were signs of trouble in paradise however. We heard him talk increasingly about players being selfish over has last two or three years. He left some good players but Division 1 is much different now with social media and changes in rules. My biggest concern with CMW was the win now environment that he was working under with the holdover players and the new recruits that signed on. Just an opinion, I believe this has delayed a more effective recasting of the team.

    Over analyzing a couple of data points is a trap that can lead you down a rabbit hole of bad decisions, one after another. That would take us further from any success BD established. Ive seen more good than bad with CMW so im optimistic about the future. We could certainly do much worse hopping on the coaching carousel now.
     
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  20. number1

    number1 NBN Bracket Master

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    Remember Coach White is heading into season 6 at UF and his 10th overall season as a head coach. That's pretty darn experienced to me. lol
     
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