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Experimental Offense

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by jeffphillips21, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    This might sound a bit out there but hear me out. We have some guys that can score on this team. We have guys that can get their own shot. I would think if we said to them, 'get us some buckets', there are guys on this team that can do it. Clearly Keyontae. Mann too. In some ways Blackshear can (if we can get him the ball). If nothing else he'd draw a foul. He's made a ton of FTs already. Lewis will be there eventually, he has all the tools - and quick as hell.

    My point is, if White just said to these guys, whoever can take their guard off the ball and score on him, let's do it. In other words, Hero Ball.

    Isn't that kind of what the DDO is? I bet - given the personalities of these players (especially guys like Keyontae and Mann), they would relish the opportunity. Make it a contest if you have to - bragging rights - with these guys. Seriously. Who cares, as long as it brings some swag back to this team. I bet it transfers to the defensive side of the ball as well.

    BUT. Learn that there's a bailout. And that bailout is cutters, and guys that can set back screens on your guard. Guys you can pass to down low. Payne would make a living off easy dumps and put-back dunks. Blackshear would too. Gak when he's back. Even Jitiboh and Basset. We have SIZE. FINALLY. And we have guys that can penetrate and/or get their own shot. Give them the opportunity.

    This Hero Ball - especially if the guy who's taking his man off the dribble knows he can - has the chance to really open up the defense, and gets guys used to playing at a higher speed while keeping an awareness of your teammates' spacing. This team should be perfect for that.
    You put everyone into 3 categories:

    Drivers/Cutters/Playmakers:
    Keyontae
    Mann
    Lewis
    (Occasionally Nembhard)

    Perimeter (Shooting & Passing):
    Nembhard
    Locke
    Ques
    Alex

    High & Low Post:
    Blackshear
    Payne
    Jitoboh
    Basset
    Gak

    Everything starts with the playmakers. These playmakers do whatever they can to beat their guy off the dribble. Who gets the ball should be decided on mismatches. For eg if Mann has a bigger slower guy on him he can blow by him. Or if his guard is short, he can elevate for a jump shot over him. Either way, it starts with the playmakers.

    The playmakers have 3 basic options: 1. Try to score 2. pass to the perimeter 3. pass into post. Whichever way they choose, they're the ones initiating the offense - in ATTACK MODE. It could be argued that Nembhard should be a playmaker, or has to be, which is understandable. But at this point hasn't shown this ability with any consistency. Let's just say he can be an x variable.

    The overall goal of this (and really the DDO) is to penetrate enough to break down the defense, force the defense to adjust, while cutters and post players fill the gaps or set screens etc to create the best possible shot - or kick out to the perimeter. When you get penetration you break down the defense. It's that simple. FSU should have been the kind of game where that's the priority. If it was, they would have had a TON of blocking fouls called against them. Instead, we had zero free throws attempted from any of our playmakers until 2 minutes left in the game (garbage time).

    If all our playmakers went into attack mode we would have won that game. Keyontae did, and was by far our best offensive player. Lewis showed he could yet missed the layup - but who was there for the follow-up? Payne. That kind of play is ripe for offensive rebounds because the defenders are drawn to the driver. Mann could have had more success too. And the Free Throws. That alone could have been the difference.

    Attack, attack, attack. That should be this team's mantra. (also full-court press and go 10+ players deep).This team should be playing with a swag and a chip on their shoulder. Play angry if you have to but please for the love of God, no more passive BS or getting pushed around - especially at home against an in-state rival.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  2. dontpanic

    dontpanic VIP Member

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    Well, although that might sound like a good idea, this ain't pickup ball, and without effective team unity on offense, you don't win against top quality teams.
     
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  3. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Your post was way too short. Could you please lengthen it. By the way, what makes you think that Mann can drive, cut and playmake and not Glover. I think that Mann’s strength is his outside shot, while Glover is the guy with the quickness to get in the paint and make plays.
     
  4. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

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    It's an interesting thread. Anything seems like a better idea than what we're running. I still think ball movement is key to any good offense, but it's the way we're doing it that's the problem. Blackshear needs to be the center of the offense. Develop plays around him. His home should be at the top of the free throw line extended and have 4 guys out on the perimeter. Objective being to get the ball to him and let him be our point guard from 15 feet out instead of the ball being 25 feet away with no threat of an attack. Nembhard is a preferred non-slasher (I believe he's capable but mentally he doesn't think he can), but we know he can catch and shoot from Eric's previous article. Locke's a catch and shoot guy too, not a slasher. Have them camped out on both sides, and have Keyontae and Scottie (or Mann) in the corners. You can draw up so many plays from there.
     
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  5. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    I'm not
    I'm not saying there's no team unity or it's a pickup game style, not at all. There's defined parameters in the system, but it's predicated on playmakers initiating the offense.

    Yes, Tampa, we could move Ques to playmaker, but I still question is ability to finish inside. Don't think he's made a layup yet, even uncontested. I wouldn't move Mann out of that position however, because the playmaker doesn't have to make layups, he just has to score on his guy. I think it's safe to say Mann is one of the best one on one players on the team.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  6. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    If it was too long why did you read it?

    I agree Glover can be moved to the playmaker role. I was debating whether to put him there before. There are a couple players that are interchangeable, he's one of them.
     
  7. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    It was a good read, but looooooonnnng.
     
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  8. hotelgator

    hotelgator GC Legend

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    Until this team figures stuff out, there are going to be long and short thinking out loud.
    Good read and thoughts.
    After Sunday, hopefully a Jimmy Chitwood transfers in and gets a waiver to play immediately. We need a Norman Dale coach philosophy perhaps as well :)
    Better ideas than Robbie at the Sun could deliver imho
    Thanks for posting

    Go Gators
     
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  9. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

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    In many respects, I thought this was exactly what we’d try to do: a variation on DDO with BD’s high screen with elements of pick and roll or pick and pop.

    @Fawcett said we tried “horns” vs FSU, too.

    My preconception was to quickly outlet to Lewis/Mann on the wings for transition buckets, force the pace.

    If that wasn’t there, return it to AN to run the half-court.

    Feed the post. KB can maneuver for his shot or kick out if double-teamed.

    Or, AN passes back to Lewis/Mann to slash into the paint. Or KJ along the baseline....Take it to the rim, pull up for a J, or kick out to the perimeter.

    Maybe include some high ball screens to free a player. Back screens too, in the post, or along the perimeter.

    4&5-out iso’s too.
     
  10. phideltdj

    phideltdj GC Hall of Fame

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    Let's try anything different than what we are doing now because we know it's not working
     
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  11. VTGator

    VTGator GC Hall of Fame

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    What you're describing is as close to DDO as it gets. The problem is, DDO relies on the decision making of the players as there aren't many set plays. Naturally there are growing pains when you turn over half the team and have a bunch of underclassmen playing big minutes, especially at the beginning of the season. They'll figure it out.
     
  12. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone else feel that our guys saw how Ballard was the most aggressive player and whose role quickly vanished and thought "dang I better not just attack the defense by myself, what if it doesn't go in for me". I personally loved the way Ballard played when he got here, but he clearly got much worse over time psychologically. If every player played with Ballard's sense of urgency to score, we'd be much better off.
     
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  13. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    that's fair, guilty as charged...
     
  14. toddrl

    toddrl GC Hall of Fame

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    Interestingly enough, in his presser yesterday White said the big issue vs FSU was that guys WERE playing hero ball and not making the extra pass, looking for KB in the post, etc...and that they were spending massive practice time this week working on passing, ball movement etc
     
  15. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't know what game White was watching.
     
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  16. diamondted13

    diamondted13 GC Hall of Fame

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    He must have meant guys playing hero ball AFTER Nembhard and co. pissed away the first 25 sec of each possession standing around staring at each other.
     
  17. jmac83

    jmac83 GC Legend

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    Exactly, I saw no heroes out there Sunday, only sheep.
     
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  18. diamondted13

    diamondted13 GC Hall of Fame

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    Zero ball?
     
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  19. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    The fact that White is seeing the opposite of what everyone else is seeing concerns me honestly.
     
  20. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I didn't see that.

    To me, "hero ball" implies a guy being overly aggressive and forcing early shots.
    I saw timidity that yielded late-clock heaves.

    Still, ball movement is needed, but its only going to be generated if we can move the defense. We have to be more assertive attacking with the ball.
     
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