Entertaining factoid about SWAC record in the ACC

And Auburn. They were 11-0 in '93 and 9-1-1 in '94.

 

That's one of them. "We had to face the dreaded SEC gauntlet."

 

Good to see you after all these years Maj

 

You'd rather try to win an argument than address Bowdens own words huh? Friendly jab. Again, respectfully.

I mean you say looking objectively which also takes out context. Not really how college football played by kids works. Context for example is playing Arkansas a week after fsu in the sec titles game which the acc didnt even have back then. Arkansas finished 8 and 5 that year but I believe was 8 and 3 prior to our game and the bowl game.

 

My Jove, I think you covered them all!! I applaud our 1996 MNC, but we had that situation in 1994 as well (5th quarter at the French Quarter). neutral field, neutral refs...

Now unless you believe the fallacy that an X-win SEC team was as good as an X+2 win ACC team, the quality of opposition wasn't that different. We had Tennessee, yes, but we also had Georgia through the Ray Goff Era, we had LSU through Hallman and DiNardo, rather than Saban, and we played 45 SEC teams from 1990-2001 without winning records. As for the SECCGs, we played four strong opponents (see previous post). We also played 9-win Alabama, 8-5 Arkansas, and 9-4 Auburn. All three COULD beat us but with a ring on the line, the more talented team usually rises to the top.

In addition, since conference play began for both teams, Florida played 19 G5/FCS schools. FSU played only five (insert "Duke is like an FCS team response here, and we'll forget about Vandy ).

 

Does any of us? That said, we were both around at the time, as were many other oldtimers. I'm mellowing in my old age, but the old bromides still pop up lol.

But I need to resubmerge. PD probably replaced his beeper with a smart phone and the alarms are going off...

 

I was around back in the day but I wasnt a standout poster anyone would remember. I may have changed my name as well when I got logged out and couldn't sign in. Every once in a while I think of the names back then and miss quite a few like Graygator....

I have been pretty good at picking up on writing style and picked out a few over in too hot with changed names. Never certain but highly suspicious lol

I remember ALAgator as a Bama troll disguised as a Gator although not very well. Many more

 

Off topic but, will we have ACC refs at The Swamp?

 

LOL! David had a love/hate relationship with me. These days, I'm just having fun, and I'm getting old (looking at buying a house in The Villages lol), but back then, PD and I would hammer each other relentlessly. I forgot who was banned more times between us lol.

But one thing I said to him proved prophetic: "If you seriously think Zook is the worst it could possibly be here, let me tell you, it could be FAR worse!" My problem is that like many here, I remember the Dickey and Pell/Hall eras. I never considered 10+ win seasons and SEC/MNC rings to be our Divine Right like those who cut their teeth on the SOS era. In the 1970s, our dads gave us Pintos and Vegas. In the mid 80s, Daddy Pell/Hall gave us classic Shelby Cobras, but we ran it in a ditch and had to beg for the Pinto again. In the SOS Era, we got Porsche 911s, and in the mid 1990s, we got Porsche 930 Turbos. After SOS left, we downgraded to Nissan Z's, but after losing the Turbo, those kids think they got a Yugo. Meyer got us back into the Porsche Turbos for a while, but we forgot things like oil changes and such. In 2010, we shot a rod into the engine, rented another Z, stole a MB SL 65 AMG in 2012, but these days, we are taking the bus...

 

Great analogies and spot on with the prophecy but you have to admit our failed coaches each had fatal flaws. The only redeeming one i can really see happen is if mullen goes to a recruiting machine (I never thought UF was one despite Meyers salesmanship) like lsu, Bama Georgia etc where the old guard has no scruples and will sell their souls to win football games.

 

Final AP Rankings 1992 (FSU's first year in the ACC) thru 1999.



Let's not bend over backwards to cherry pick data. Not all three loss teams are equal, seems an arbitrary metric. Hence why no-one is arguing that today's 5-1 Western Kentucky is better than the current 3-2 records for Notre Dame, Auburn or FSU. Simply put, beating a one or two loss ACC team was not equivalent to beating a one or two loss SEC team. Not even a little bit.

Playing in the SEC was SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult than playing in the ACC during this period - and it's not remotely close.

There is no way on Earth anyone with any objectivity can argue that FSU would have done better during that period if they were playing in the SEC. Could they have done just as well... seems like a stretch given the data.

 

Every coach has flaws. The great ones can overcome them. Spurrier and Meyer knew they were bulletproof, so they could do anything they wanted. The other coaches didn't have that support. If Leak did to Meyer/Mullen what Rex did to Zook/Zaun, Chris would have hit the pine in three plays, and Meyer would have put Portis or Dickey in the game in a heartbeat. He wouldn't care HOW long or good Chris was. Spurrier gave less than 1/10th a damn what people thought of his QB replacements.

With NIL and The Dreaded Portal, anyone could be a contender. I've always believed winning begats great recruiting which continues to perpetuate more winning. When Marine mentioned VT, I thought that was intriguing because once upon a time, they pretty much owned the Chesapeake/Norfolk/Virginia Beach area (the 757, as it is called). In the mid 2000s, Frank started losing his grip (Percy Harvin was from the 757) in the area to outside poachers like Clemson, just as we were losing our grip on the state. VT apologists said Frank turned him down due to a couple high school discipline issues, but the handwriting was clearly on the wall. If Mullen went there, the VT AAU can line up some of their billionaire computer donors, and actively recruit through the Portal, they could win big almost immediately and then re-take the 757. They would want a strong defense, however, because that was what they were raised on. If Mullen ignores the defense again, he'll crash and burn.

The main reason I want Kiffin is because he earned a PhD in Portal Management. Their recruiting was solid, but their Portal selections were lights out.

 

Probably, SS let them back in several years ago

 

The Bob wanted a guarantee that SWAC wouldn't have to play Bama and Auburn in the same season. The Conference refused to guarantee that. So... they ran to the ACC. Some SWAC fans claimed they joined the ACC to help their basketball program. HA!!!

 

They admitted that their schedule was so soft that they were preparing for the game against is in practice ALL SEASON LONG!

 

Except I didn't use G5/FCS teams. All were from major conferences. As for the SEC/ACC comparison in the 1990s, can you demonstrate it? I did, and it proved to be false. The SEC won about 53% of their games (losing 47% of the games) against ACC teams with +/- one win difference prior to the game. Ditto with using the BiG, PAC, Big East and Big XII. The difference favored the SEC, but not by a lot.

Show me with stats and head to head games. This aligns with the myth that Florida State rested their starters all year and showed up against us at full strength, while we faced "The Gauntlet." From 1992-2000, the record of the two opponents prior to the FSU game was:

USCe (40-60-1) and Vandy (30-69-0). Together, they are 70-129-1 (.353)

FSU two opponents before Florida were all different, but their cumulative record was 126-103-1 (.550). They also included North Carolina (11-1), Notre Dame (11-1), Clemson (9-3), and NC State (9-3). Each team had one bye week during that period. So are you going to tell me with a straight face that Florida, after facing that gauntlet of USCe (3 winning seasons, barely) and Vandy (they're 1990s Vandy), the Gators were all banged up, emotionally exhausted, etc., whereas FSU was tanned, rested and full strength when they played Florida after playing far better opponents? Want to go back another week? From 1992-1995, Florida played G5 teams, then 5-6 Georgia in 1996. Granted, Georgia got a lot better from 1997 onward, but overall, there isn't much difference.

Nah. If they would have had Florida's schedule, they would have done equally well. If they had Kentucky's schedule, they would have done better -- as Florida would have done better. Not all SEC schedules are equal. But let's see. From 1992-2000, Florida played:

* 18 G5/FCS schools. We'll give FSU 18 wins
* 39 SEC teams without winning records. If Florida can win them all, so can FSU. We're up to 57 wins.
* FSU went 7-3-1 against the SEC's top team. We're up to 64 wins
* FSU went 6-3 against bowl opponents, whose cumulative record was 95-14-1 (.868). Florida's opponents were a combined 91-16-2 (.844). Florida's record was 5-4. Give FSU six more wins (70 wins)
* FSU had no title game, while Florida went 5-2. I think the Noles could have gone 5-2 as well, so let's give FSU 75 wins.
* Florida played 33 games against SEC opponents in the regular season with winning records, going 25-8 (.757). As stated previously, FSU won 71.5% of their games against opponents with only three or fewer losses/ties. Being that they won 69% of their games against us, and 66% of their games against bowl opponents who were either us or better than us, I think it is fair to say their SEC record against winning teams would be as strong as ours, if not stronger. That gives FSU between 95-100 wins from 1992-2000. Florida had 93 wins from 1992-2000. Even if you want to

I haven't had this kind of workout in decades. Thanks! But I'm done. I'm getting too old for this. It's all in fun so don't get mad at another opinion...

 

Let's compare SWAC and UF basketball from 1992 to 2024:

UF:
Final Four appearances: 6
Championship Game appearances: 4
National Titles: 3


SWAC
Final Four appearances: ZERO
Championship Game appearances: ZERO
National Titles: ZERO

 

You dont allow for the physical nature of the sec during that time except maybe vandy who is on par with many in acc. Top to bottom the games were extremely physical regardless of your record comparison and not just the preceeding weeks before uf/fsu. Go down the list of team they would have faced. Bama, aubie, msu, lsu, tenn, uk, usce, arkie ole miss, and vandy. Comparing the top teams doesn't account fir the cumulative wear and tear of the season.

None of which matters when contrasted against their coaches own words of the acc is an easier road

 

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Vandy. Arkansas. USCe. Kentucky. They are all mid to lower level in the ACC in the 90s. There is no "wear and tear" difference. You make it sound like UNC, Virginia, Clemson, NC State, etc., are equivalent to Vandy. They weren't. Only Duke and Wake Forest were equivalent.

 

DiNardo's last year or so completely fell apart, but he almost instantly turned around a moribund LSU (DiNardeaux bringing back the magic!). His first three years there they were a top 10-15 team every season. Similarly, we like to make fun of good old Ray Goof, but he had some very good teams in the early 90s (Eric Zeier years) and always recruited well. And when Donnan replaced him in 96, they were again almost instantly competitive and spent the rest of Spurrier's tenure in the top 10-15. And as someone else mentioned, we played Auburn every year and they were almost always ranked throughout the 90s.