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Doctoring the Ball (MLB)

Discussion in 'Diamond Gators' started by gtj31, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. gtj31

    gtj31 GC Hall of Fame

    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    To me the bigger issue from that is making a change mid-season. Looks like guys were able to get away with a lot of stuff and that is all of a sudden being taken away.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. gtj31

    gtj31 GC Hall of Fame

    I agree the midseason switch is tough but strikeouts, no-no’s, etc are running rampant. Part of that is obviously hitters but something has been off and needed to be fixed.

    And still, doctoring the ball has never been legal even if it wasn’t enforced.
     
  4. flgatr1

    flgatr1 VIP Member

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    Oh for the days of Ted Williams, Stan Musial, and Joe Dimaggio.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. 74nole

    74nole GC Hall of Fame

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    Greg—

    Strikeouts, no-no’s, etc running rampant? Part of that is obviously hitters but something has been off and needed to be fixed.

    So why not fix the problem? Do away with this analytics approach of launch angles and pay hitters to be hitters again, not hit home runs at all costs……but that’s just me.
     
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  6. gtj31

    gtj31 GC Hall of Fame

    The analytics serve a purpose. Hitting .300 vs. .250 with a smaller OPS generates less runs. That is what the analytics show.

    A single then needs two more singles to score a run. A HR only needs one swing.
     
  7. 74nole

    74nole GC Hall of Fame

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    I understand the numbers, but the approach to achieve those same numbers are ruining the game—just read what we all bitch about as we watch ANY GAME.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    I just looked it up, there are only 90 baseball players with a batting average greater than .250; only 141 with a batting average greater than .200 (that's 4.7 per team).

    Compare guys like (avg, slg, ops, war):

    Michael Brantley (.340, .497, .881, 1.5)
    Jean Segura (.332, .465, .845, 2.4)
    Adam Frazier (.331, .467, .860, 1.9)
    Nick Madrigal (.305, .425, .774, 1.3)

    (10 HR combined)

    With:

    Freddie Freeman (.237, .458, .809, 0.5) - 15 HR
    Avisail Garcia (.237, .450, .754, 0.9) - 13 HR
    Rhys Hoskins (.235, .440, .750, 0.4) - 12 HR
    Dansby Swanson (.233, .428, .712, 0.3) - 10 HR

    Do the analytics tell the latter guys to keep swinging for the fences?

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
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  9. jhfxof

    jhfxof GC Hall of Fame

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    Get rid of ALL substances, including ones used to 'doctor' bats.

    There are so many ways to do it 'legally' Sweat, dirt, rosin(if still allowed)

    Maybe invent a pitchers glove, since batter allowed to use them. ;)
     
  10. gtj31

    gtj31 GC Hall of Fame

    Absolutely. 70 batting points is about 1 additional hit in 3 games!!! If that hit is a single, it is worth roughly 1/3 of a HR. So an additional HR in 9 games is ballpark equivalent production.

    Now to Bill’s point, it is ugly. I get that. I appreciate that. And I agree with it. Michael Brantley is my favorite player today. Love his swing.

    Note: Numbers are ballpark in my head and haven’t been checked for accuracy...
     
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  11. jhfxof

    jhfxof GC Hall of Fame

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    Yet the last place Orioles all(everyday guys)hit above .200, minus one at .194. lol Only a .236 team avg though. I say only, that may be high this year..lol And that includes best hitter in MLB this year Cedric Mullins..j/k

    .236 in dead middle of pack,,sad
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  12. gtj31

    gtj31 GC Hall of Fame

    And this is where I wanted to go with the thread. Baseball is full of cheats. Always has been. Always will be. Tyler Glasnow complaining about getting hurt because he can’t use sunscreen is bs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  13. flgatr1

    flgatr1 VIP Member

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    I'll tell you a way to limit the hrs and bring the game back. Don't make the balls so lively.
     
  14. gtj31

    gtj31 GC Hall of Fame

    Did you see Alonso’s comment on this??
     
  15. gtj31

    gtj31 GC Hall of Fame

    @74nole, you agreed with the cheats comment but I know you can’t stand the roid users. From your view, how are pitchers different from hitters when they gain an illegal advantage?
     
  16. 74nole

    74nole GC Hall of Fame

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    Greg—

    I’ll have to again refer to ol’school baseball to get my true opinion out there.
    I never used any kind of stuff like grease or anything slick to make the ball fly erratically, which everyone knows was popular. I knew how to rub a new baseball up with mound dirt and rosin to get the better feel I wanted on the baseball. Of course I would never throw a scuffed ball out and ask for a new one.

    I am merely talking about the things we did for better control or sharpness of break on the curveball.

    Back then hitters openly used pine tar on their bats and hands. Batting gloves had not yet become stylish. I never had any problems with a hitter using pine tar or even crowding the plate if he had sand enough for the repercussions.

    Now hitters step up on top of the plate with damn near full body armor on—if you pitch like they want you to you’re not going to have much success.

    I always enjoyed facing the best hitters we were playing but I also always felt like we were on equal footing.
     
  17. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker GC Hall of Fame

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    At least they aren't doing something stupid like they did with the spitball where guys that threw it legally were grandfathered in, but new guys couldn't throw it.

    IIRC for a year or two a team was allowed to designate two pitchers that were allowed to throw it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. flgatr1

    flgatr1 VIP Member

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    no, I didn't, but I'd like to read it.
     
  19. johnny_cakes

    johnny_cakes All American

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    I'm softball guy, so I really have no idea -- since this has apparently gone on in MLB for a few years, is the general opinion that it has trickled down to the college level?