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diplomatic vandalism

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. wrpgator

    wrpgator GC Hall of Fame

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  2. I want it as if Obama was never President to begin with. Repeal EVERYTHING he did. Impeach ALL his judges. That would be a good start to straightening this country out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2019
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  3. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    And you still wonder why you are never chosen for jury duty......you ooze bias from your skin.
     
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  4. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Rhetorical questions all? The world is moving to green technologies and Trump offers coal at energy technology meetings. Some “vision.” But, this is about our policy being driven be a desire to end Obama programs. Not just the Iran deal, of course, which I agreed with. Health care. You name it.
     
  5. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    I feel the exact same way regarding Trump and unlike Trump, Obama actually won the popular vote both times and carried the Electoral College by much larger margins in two elections than Trump did in one. The House elections in 2018 were a good start to straightening this country out and hopefully Trump's defeat next year will finish the job.
     
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  6. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Question who would you trust to accurately analyze the Iran nuclear deal, the former director of one the most respected intelligence agencies in the world or a New York real estate developer who greatest talent is persuasion?

    Ex-Mossad Chief Supports Iran Nuclear Deal
    It wasn't Halevy's conclusion that the agreement with Iran was a "good" deal. It was his conclusion that it represented an improvement over the status quo at the time the agreement was negotiated.

    On one hand Trump ripped up an agreement with which the adversarial party was in compliance (until very recently which was subsequent to the US noncompliance). On the other hand when Trump came into office North Korea had tested a fission device and intermediate range ballistic missiles. Less than two years after Trump took office NK successfully tested a thermonuclear device a magnitude more powerful than the fission bombs that it had previously tested and an ICBM capable of reaching the mainland of the US. In response Trump agreed to concessions with NK (suspending joint military exercises with South Korea) that Kim, his father and his grandfather failed to obtain from any previous administration. Trump can rant but in reality the US is less safe since he took office.

    One other point, the key to diplomacy is establishing trust. By unilaterally ripping up the JCPOA Trump has demonstrated that the US can longer be considered trustworthy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  7. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Legend

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    Just reading the news article and judging from what is claimed to be in the memo I would want facts. Appears to be or is seemingly does no one any good and if you can't say with certainty what is going on then you are of no use. So long and good riddance Sir Kim.
     
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  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like you think it was the best deal the U.S. could have gotten. Therefore, I assume no one laments as much as you that the OA did not put the deal (including all secret agreements) before the Senate for full ratification. You must be so angry at the OA for not facilitating a treaty that even President Trump could not abrogate unilaterally. I understand the sentiment entirely.
     
  9. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    I would believe Sir Kim over Donnie every day of the week.
    His job as ambassador is to report back to his superior his conversations and opinion on what is going on and how to best use this information to his countries advantage. It is not in his best interest to lie.
    The memos were never to be made public so again no reason to lie about what he is seeing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  10. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm hoping that Trump will negotiate a modified agreement under which the current time frames of 10 and 15 years will be significantly extended. Maybe he can but so far his mouth and his twitter account far exceed his competence as an actual negotiator, see North Korea.
    FYI, here's a link to a detailed description of the actual agreement.
    The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) at a Glance | Arms Control Association

    Edit: I'm also hoping that we can negotiate an agreement limiting Iranian support of it's clients. Again, at least so far Trump's mouth exceeds his competence as a negotiator.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  11. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Legend

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    Without evidence of such claims you're chasing your tail. Fact - Sir Kim is gone and what was leaked and released may get him a book deal but a position as diplomat for any country is highly doubtful.
     
  12. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    The memos speak for themselves. But you keep fluffing away.
     
  13. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Legend

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    Certainly they do. Sir Kim's memos speak of his own opinion without regard to facts. Yet somehow the MSM and others take his opinion as fact. Tell me how many bosses or people have you had or met that you don't like? When you talk of these people how much is fact versus personal opinion? Versus Sir Kim he made these tidbits known as personal opinion not fact.
     
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  14. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Sir Kim's memos reflect the analysis of a well-respected career diplomat. Unlike the US, in the UK virtually all diplomats are career civil servants not political appointees who are awarded ambassadorships as rewards for campaign contributions.
     
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  15. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Legend

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    Sorry to say but the memos leaked and produced are not an analysis of what one would call a well respected career diplomat. They are ramblings of personal thoughts and opinions.
     
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  16. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Of course they are his opinion, his professional opinion as the ambassador of the UK. Trump is not his boss. Sir Kim is literally a legal spy for his govt positioned to report what he sees so his govt can take advantage of it.
    He is the victim/scapegoat here. He would still be the ambassador if the memos were not leaked. He fell on his sword because the future PM Johnson is a trump lackey and refused to support his own people.
     
  17. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    It's still all speculation though. He wasn't in the room when the decision was made as he isn't part of the administration. Based on the bits we read, he doesn't have a source inside the administration. The language he used saying "seemingly" indicates it's speculation. Carpeveritas is right that it's being written up as fact when it's one guy's opinion. The headline in the OP "New leak claims Trump scrapped Iran nuclear deal 'to spite Obama'" should say something like "Diplomat believes Trump scrapped Iran nuclear deal 'to spite Obama'" if they wanted to accurately portray the language in the memo.
     
  18. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    If diplomats had that kind of inside information, countries wouldn't need intelligence services. He can only report back what he is told by members of the government. He doesn't sit in on their meetings and hear the debate. He specifically said that nobody he talked to in the administration could explain the decision to him in reasonable terms and just said it was a campaign promise. That's what he knows.
     
  19. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Legend

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    No I never said President Trump was Sir Kim's boss nor did I imply President Trump is his boss.
    The real story here is the UK has begun an investigation into the leaks of the memo from Sir Kim. The UK is doing exactly what they should be doing in this regard. Getting rid of Sir Kim and tracking down the leak. I would expect any nation to do that. Of course the exception is the US especially where political bias is involved.
     
  20. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree there should be an investigation on the UK side. Sir Kim just did his job. You would know bias it's your argument every time.