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DeSantis Suspends Broward Sheriff Scott Israel

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorBen, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Because a counselor shouldn’t have the unilateral ability to deny someone a constitutional right.

    We have a system to have people committed for mental illness or judicially declared incompetent. Both make someone ineligible to own guns.

    But we refuse to use either of them because God forbid the government tell crazy people to get help.
     
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  2. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Burden’s on the wrong person there. Government needs to prove why you should be deprived of a constitutional right, not tell you to prove why you shouldn’t.
     
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  3. orangeblue_coop

    orangeblue_coop GC Hall of Fame

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    Israel and the Broward County police force were easy fall guys this time. I'm curious to see who gets blamed for the next school shooting.
     
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  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Naaaah. It's all about the $$$$$.
     
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  5. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Legend

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    Seriously. There's barely enough government/court/LEO resources to deal with all the actual criminals in Florida, let alone the hypothetical ones. No one is talking about raising taxes to pay for any of these supposedly obvious and easy steps for dealing with the crazies. Certainly not any of the Republicans in Tallahassee.

    Just more Monday morning quarterbacking from people who want a politically convenient scapegoat.
     
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  6. MichiGator2002

    MichiGator2002 Premium Member

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    His NICS was clean BECAUSE of local law enforcement and education bureaucracy continuing to prefer their grant money to actually taken legal action against him that would have created the paper trail to get him turned down.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2019
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  7. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 Premium Member

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    Good to see you in here Ben. You too Michi. Feel like it’s been a minute.
     
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  8. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Haven’t found a ton interesting about politics since the election, so have mostly been hanging out in the Den. Florida politics since the inauguration has been a bit of a whirlwind though, so it may pull me back in some.
     
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  9. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Just an attempt by the GOP to govern in a heavily Democratic County. And, an appeal to a base. Israel might be a bad sheriff, but he was elected.
     
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  10. ursidman

    ursidman GC Hall of Fame

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    Are you referring to something more than a 72-hour Baker Act commitment for observation? Baker Acting someone doesn't take a judge as LE can recommend to a psychiatrist who makes the determination. Sounds like you are referring to something more? Does being Baker Acted prevent you from buying a gun or does it take something more? I really don't know.
     
  11. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    I’m not sure that it’s partisan so much as an indication that DeSantis may (as his inaugural address suggested) be much more aggressive in using his suspension powers than predecessors historically have.

    He also suspended the (Republican) Okaloosa superintendent of schools today for failing to adequately oversee and manage educational personnel and ensure that district staff were adequately trained in preventing and reporting child abuse.
     
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  12. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Baker Act has two prongs, the 72 hour max observation hold, and an involuntary commitment where the facility and/or law enforcement goes to a judge and requests that the individual under the hold be involuntarily committed for treatment. The former does not make you a prohibited person, the latter does.
     
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  13. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    They dont have to be held, just put into the system, then they cant legally buy the guns due to the required background checks
     
  14. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    They were grossly incompetent
     
  15. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    I'm not sold that's a good thing.
     
  16. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    That's not correct. Putting them into the system isn't enough. You have to involuntarily commit them.
     
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  17. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    I think it could go either way. We’ll have to see how he uses it moving forward.

    Broward Sheriff (with independent commissions having highly faulted his office for their handling of both Parkland and the airport shooting, plus a bunch of Parkland parents calling for his removal) and Okaloosa Superintendent (with a grand jury indicting a teacher for child abuse and four district employees for failing to report child abuse, plus putting out findings saying that while the Superintendent was not criminally responsible she allowed a culture of poor management where child abuse and reporting obligations were overlooked) were the fairly easy calls. We’ll see whether he’s equally aggressive in cases that may be more marginal.
     
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  18. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    No it's not. If the person being denied a gun wants to challenge it, then the burden of proof is on the government to back their decision to place that person on the list. Pretty much the same as how government can arrest and hold you on suspicion of a crime, but the burden is still on the government to prove you committed it if you want to challenge it in court. I see no difference.
     
  19. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    The government being required to meet its burden in an arrest isn’t dependent on you challenging it...

    Issuance of arrest warrant requires a probable cause finding by a judge, and if you are in custody without an arrest warrant a probable cause determination has to be made within 48 hours of your arrest.

    If you want to deprive someone of a constitutional right, you go ask a judge for permission to do so. You don’t just strip their rights and tell them “hey, you’re welcome to go challenge it if you don’t agree.”
     
  20. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Obama had a policy of placing people on the Social Security mentally ill list on the no guns list until Trump undid it ... that's just common sense IMO, and I don't think it required case-by-case approval from a judge.

    But, I would be fine with having a judge review a mental health professional's opinion if that is your hang up, but I really don't have any problem at all denying a person their 2A rights based on a mental health professional's opinion, alone, then allowing that decision to be reviewed later if the person wants to challenge it. We've already decided that your 2A rights are not absolute and I have not problem with occasionally erring on the side of safety and denying a person their temporarily 2A rights until a hearing.

    We need to find something that works and I'm not sure telling cops to press for more Baker Acts and Involuntary Commitments is the most efficient way to do it ...