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DeSantis Suspends Broward Sheriff Scott Israel

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorBen, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    For alleged incompetence and neglect of duty relating to Israel and the Sheriff’s Offices handling of the Parkland shooting and Fort Lauderdale Airport shooting, as well as the Office’s handling of prior reports related to the Parkland shooter.

    Suspension order is here: https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/EO-19-14.pdf
     
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  2. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Seems like a move to deflect attention from the fact that a diagnosed total nut job was easily allowed to buy an AR-15
     
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  3. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Which he was allowed to do precisely because no one ever did anything to have said nut job committed or arrested for being a nut job.

    Which is a major part of the whole incompetence and neglect of duty thing. So not exactly a deflection...
     
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  4. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    What was he going to be arrested for? He talked some crap and attempted to hurt himself at some times ... he was already labeled as "prone to violence" and having a "declining mental state" ... but for some reason we have laws that protect the 2A rights of people who are prone to violence and have declining mental states....
     
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  5. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Involuntary commitment makes someone ineligible as well.

    Even if there was truly nothing they could have arrested him for (although written threats to kill are a felony in Florida, and the statement that when he turned 18 he was going to buy a gun and shoot up the school sure seems like one even though the Broward deputy investigating that post said that there was “no threat”), trying to have him committed for being a threat to himself or others instead of just saying “Damn, he crazy. Carry on.” would have stopped him from being allowed to buy a gun too.
     
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  6. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Let's just be honest here. Instead of pointing the finger elsewhere, just speak the truth. Yes, a mass shooting will happen every now and then. We're not going to stop it. It's unfortunate. But it doesn't justify disregarding our constitutional rights. If people were just intellectually honest, I feel like there would be no need to debate.
     
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  7. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but those threats were made anonymously on social media, right? And they were sort of vague ... like "I want to be a professional school shooter" or some such thing. It wasn't until after the shooting that the FBI got the warrants to trace the threats back through the ISP and to his phone to find out that he made them?

    In the mean time, a guy that was labeled as violent and mentally ill was allowed to buy an AR 15 ... would you be opposed to legalizing the sharing of this data, as part of a gun buying background check?
     
  8. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    The one I’m referring to is the 2016 incident where BCSO was called by a neighbor with the tip that Cruz had posted a picture of guns on Instagram with the statement that he was going to shoot up his school. BCSO did not file a report and noted in their call tracking system that they referred the tip to the SRO.
     
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  9. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    I’m generally opposed to more gun control, but I do think the failure to appropriately follow up on the seriously mentally ill - particularly those that make threats - is a real and serious issue. And this happens to be a case that may well have been preventable had serious and documented mental illness been appropriately followed up on.

    I don’t think it’s asking a ton to suggest that someone probably should have been committed at some point when they have a documented history of mental illness and violence, and were reported for, amongst other things, posting on Instagram that they were going to shoot up the school, researching how to make pipe bombs on school computers, telling other students they liked to hurt people and looking at pictures of guns on school computers, throwing their mother against a wall, and drinking gasoline in a suicide attempt.
     
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  10. intimigator1

    intimigator1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Blaming others because clairvoyant skills aren't part of the human makeup is what it is. This what it truly is..this 1 nut job out of a country full of past and present nut jobs, plus the unforseen future nut jobs, carried easily available guns and killed students with those easily available GUNS. Its that simple. Take away the ease of purchase and/or access and you have no shooting no matter how much (or less) of a "nut job" they are.
     
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  11. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    The world is literally full of clairvoyant folks if you really think that clairvoyance is necessary to figure out that the crazy kid who posted on Instagram that he was going to shoot up the school just might try to shoot up the school.
     
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  12. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    You never answered my other question ... given what you just laid out there ... do you think laws should be changed so that someone's "documented history of mental illness and violence" would cause them to fail a background check when they go to purchase a gun?
     
  13. intimigator1

    intimigator1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually not many people are savvy enough nor capable of identifying each and ever "real" motive behind words spoken. The only thing that made this real was having the guns to make it real. Up until the access was given it was just words much like when someone says "I would beat the crap out of him if he doesn't stop running his mouth". It's just words.
    Take away the guns and this doesn't happen.
     
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  14. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    You can't normally arrest someone based on what they "might try", but you surely should prevent someone from buying a guy who had his history.
     
  15. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    You know what you can do? Involuntarily commit the mentally ill who are threatening harm to themselves and others.

    Which is exactly what I have been advocating doing.

    And which just so happens to make the person committed a federally prohibited person for gun ownership.
     
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  16. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    There are a lot of mentally ill people out there. As a result of their illness, many make threats. Unfortunately, our state doesn't have a mental health system that can hold them. It's quite easy to point fingers when you have the aid of hindsight.
     
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  17. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    "But criminals who want to murder people will find a way to get their hands on weapons, so those laws won't prevent anything."
     
  18. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    Needs due process.

    Involuntary commitment provides that (to be “committed” rather than “held” a judge has to approve). A counselor’s report doesn’t.

    That’s the primary reason I’m advocating for us to make use of involuntary commitment in appropriate cases - it’s the right approach to handle mentally ill persons who pose a threat to themselves or others, but the refusal to use it effectively neuters the mental health prong of background checks.
     
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  19. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    That's great, but apparently doesn't always work ... maybe because while in hindsight Cruz was more dangerous that previously expected, someone had to make an on the spot the call as to whether or not his "documented history of mental illness and violence" crossed the line of needing to be institutionalized.

    On the other hand, entering his name into database of mentally ill people with a violent history seems like a pretty fool proof to deny him a gun, if that were part of a background check. So why oppose it?
     
  20. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    They could go before a judge and argue that they don't belong on the list ... due process.