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Democrats missing an opportunity

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by citygator, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

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    Progressives: Progress is made in steps, not leaps.

    As I’ve traveled around the country this week people are talking politics in settings usually reserved for speaking about the weather, sports or celebrity gossip. The country is ready for a new leader. Trump’s antics have worn down his support into one singular position:

    I don’t like Trump, someone please take away his twitter access, but I will vote for him if my alternative is fundamentally transforming how America works”. - everyone

    Progressive platforms should be packed with making the ACA more sustainable and ideas to make college more accessible. Talk about ideas to implement a more fair tax burden by eliminating the salary penalty versus the interest break loophole. Establish a minimum effective tax rate for companies so every company has “skin in the game” which is a phrase conservatives only apply to the poor.

    There are many good ideas and directions that progressives can champion. Eliminating college debt and moving the country to fully socialized medicine shouldn’t be where we start. Come on gang. Get your head in the game. The most vile president ever will be re-elected when we offer progressive leaps of faith instead of steady progressive steps.

    - citygator
     
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  2. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

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    Nah..... let's give this impeachment thing another spin.
     
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  3. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Any idea the grows govt involvement is a bad idea. Doesn't matter if it is a pub or Dem idea.
    There is a base level of govt that is needed. That's it.

    Dems hate monopolies but want the govt to be the biggest one of all.

    Now AG Barr wants to nationalize the Telecom industry. Ludicrous!!
     
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  4. homer

    homer GC Legend

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    Isn’t it sad we can’t find a middle ground any more.

    As conservative as I am in some areas, I’m pretty liberal in others.

    Healthcare is a mess.
    Prescription prices are ridiculous.
    Medical marijuana is illegal and terribly expensive in some of the states that allow it.
    The environment needs to be protected.
    Clean energy for many reason other than global warming, needs to be advanced.
    National infrastructure is a mess
    Education is a mess in some states
    So many more issues

    Problem is both sides can’t slowly move center towards a resolution.

    I’m a Trump voter who will not vote for any candidate other than him, who wants to restrict my second amendment rights. That right being taking away any guns I presently own and/or requiring me to register them. One example would be the 9mm I used when I worked as a deputy. It has a 15 round magazine. I have three magazines. If I put one in the pipe, that’s 46 rounds. That’s what I carried on duty. Now some people say I can’t possess those magazines because they hold more than 5 rounds or that I have to register the gun. Ridiculous in my opinion.

    If I had my choice of presidents it would be either Condi Rice or Nickey Haley.

    I think both would be willing to compromise on most issues.

    As much as I don’t like it, I’d rather have a toxic Trump than a progressive.
     
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  5. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Legend

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    If I were a dem strategist, I would focus less on policy and more on restoring our institutions.

    Pass a new voting rights act that mandates fair districting, no more gerrymandering. Go back through the books and eliminate areas ripe for abuse. Define when the president can declare an emergency. Mandate conflict of interest recusals so political appointees are not initiating and directing investigations against rivals. Make the president get congressional approval before starting a war except in the narrowest of circumstances. Make defiance of these rules a crime.

    I’d also give the Supreme Court original jurisdiction over all conflicts between the executive and Congress. The notion that the lower courts are involved in that process at all is ridiculous.

    If there’s one thing that we’ve learned from Trump it’s that the strength of our institutions is a complete illusion that depends entirely on good faith obedience to historic norms. It’s clear that can no longer be assumed.

    Fix the system. Ensure that the people are heard and the rules can’t be abused by partisan malcontents. Then start talking about more progressive change.

    Let’s get a Madison not an FDR.
     
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  6. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    For someone like me that obsesses on FP and the Western victory in the Cold War, one of the greatest and most underappreciated human accomplishments, a Bernie nomination would provide a choice between someone that honeymooned in the Soviet Union against someone actively trying the surrender the Cold War victory and undermine Western values
     
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  7. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Two completely different things. We can and do disagree on policies. That’s been part of American history from day one. But supporting a sociopath is a horse of a different color. Trump will continue to commit impeachable offenses. That’s a given. He should be removed from office. But what citygator says in his post is true, imo. It’s great to aspire to Medicare for all and college for all, but you have to pay for that stuff at a time that the country is running trillion dollar deficits. Small steps that can be accomplished are better than big steps that go nowhere.
     
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  8. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

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    I am sure another hoax will be coming after the election unless the Reps take the house. I doubt Barr would let illegal FISAs etc.happen again on a fake Russian hoax like situation again however.
     
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  9. nobbqsauce

    nobbqsauce All American

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    I am conservative. I am not a republican nor a democrat because I find them all to be disgusting, self absorbed leeches.

    Hiwever, as a conservative I liked every single thing you outlined above. Please note that not all conservatives believe only the poor should have akin I the game. I do think the tax code, the welfare system, public education, higher education, health care, and our military are all areas needing vast revamping.
    Good Post. Hopefully one side or the other will get the heads out of their butys and their hands put of our pockets and put the country first foe a change...but dont count on it.
     
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  10. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas All American

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    So we go from fully socialized medicine to eliminating college debt. In other words free college tuition completely paid for by the tax payer. When the Democrat Party can come to the table and honestly state how much these changes will cost the tax payer then I might consider such options.

    We already know that college debt is a huge expense and not everyone is college material socialized medicine would be just as bad concerning the costs incurred. As usual our federal government cannot effectively administer the programs we have now and the answer is to give the federal government complete control. Count me out.
     
  11. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Trump has repeatedly betrayed this country and our allies for personal gain and whatever it is that Putin has over him.

    It should not be hard to beat him. I would have several hit tapes of his many criminal actions, criminal associations, and betrayals of this country and our allies on a near constant loop in every form of media and communication available. Beat the truth into Americans' heads until they can't ignore it.

    But even knowing the truth many Americans would still vote for Trump at least in part due to what the OP points out. The Dems are blowing their opportunity to step up and do what's right for the country as they are too fractured and the more extreme left views have far too loud a voice in the party.

    I hope they come together on a good centrist candidate with some integrity and let him/her run a good hard campaign for the good of this country. I am not optimistic that will occur.
     
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  12. nobbqsauce

    nobbqsauce All American

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    For the recors... I dont want to eliminate anyone's debt. That doesn't solve anything. I want to restructure our entire educational system.
    More vo tech schools, more junior colleges, and stop trying convince every kid that college is a must.
     
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  13. nobbqsauce

    nobbqsauce All American

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    Not arguing...just curious. Who would that centrist candidate be in your opinion.
    I have long stated that the dems should have jumped on the Gabbard bandwagon. She could have beaten trump and stolen many of his votes. But So many of the left's candidates pander to the extreme and to the fracture minority of votes. (Not minorities....but the small pockets of votes that dont have enough by themselves to carry an election)
     
  14. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    Were you stronger in the Trump camp a year ago or so? Just curious, I'm trying to remember.
     
  15. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    TBH, I am not sure who the best Dem candidate might be, but right now I'd go with Bloomberg, with the primary hesitation being his age.

    I don't think the country is ready for a gay President or that he would turn out the vote in AA communities, but Buttigieg is not bad for a centrist candidate.

    (edit) FWIW, my favorite Dem candidate is Yang. He is not the centrist candidate that is needed to win nor does he have enough support to be viable, but he is the smartest person in the room, has very clear understanding of the economic disruption we have been thru and are still exposed to, and my sense of him is that he honestly cares about doing what is best for the country and would build his cabinet and govern accordingly. He has no chance, so this is just a bit of a personal ramble, but thought I'd add it in.
     
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  16. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    That's not really "progressive," is it? That's just tweaking the status quo.
     
  17. homer

    homer GC Legend

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    Maybe on a couple issues. Healthcare and environment are two things I don’t like where they have moved too, and I’m not a fan of Obamacare.

    Positive on 2nd amendment.

    I’ve posted numerous times I voted for him strictly for the SCOTUS nomination, that happen to become two.

    I don’t like the guy and would not want him as my neighbor. But I also like the way he gets progressives riled up. His talk and tweets don’t bother me as much as some. I’ve always been a what has a person done guy, not what have they said. I think he knows a lot of his stuff is BS but puts it out there to piss his opposition off. He’s made me think WTH and lol.

    It looks like I might end up voting for him to stop someone I dislike like more.

    Sadly, that’s what it has become.
     
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  18. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo GC Hall of Fame

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    I think Mitt Romney is missing an opportunity. Why doesn't he run against Trump for the GOP nomination? What does he have to lose? He has already said that he ought to be removed. Remove him, Mitt!
     
  19. Trickster

    Trickster Premium Member

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    I love the argument that "there is a base level of government that is needed. That's it". No two libertarians agree on what the base is.
     
  20. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    LOL something we agree on.