Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

David Brooks: our pathetic attempt at herd immunity

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by l_boy, May 7, 2021.

  1. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

    3,292
    274
    333
    Apr 3, 2007
    i never said anything about Biden. I didn't say anything about Trump's management of the pandemic. Some of you like to read all kinds of ideas into what is being discussed. What i was discussing was anti-vaccine sentiment. Prior to the election, some were saying that they would be hesitant to take the vaccine because of Trump's involvement. NY is a good example. Cuomo had stated even if the FDA approves emergency authorization, (which they did after the election), he wouldn't allow the vaccine until his health department reviewed all the data (regardless of FDA). So yes, the vaccine was a political football.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    7,990
    959
    1,358
    Apr 16, 2007
    This is because Trump had previously been pimping hydroxychoriquin and suggested WH scientists “look into” bleach injections. Having him pressure the FDA to approve something (anything!) potentially undermines faith in the approval process, that seemed a legitimate concern at the time because we see how Trump operates. He just wanted an approval so he could sell it as his miracle cure, didn’t have a damn thing to do with the quality or if it even worked at all.

    Though the irony is his sheep would probably go along with him either way. The people who are hesitant not as true anti-vaxxers but for political reasons to “own da libs” would probably inject acid into their veins if the orange god-idol commanded them to. Because he isn’t out there selling the vaccine, they don’t take it.

    As it turns out the vaccines were more effective than anyone’s wildest dreams, so the concerns over Trump meddling were quickly overridden by the fact the vaccines aren’t even a close call.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

    3,292
    274
    333
    Apr 3, 2007
    I would take issue with your take on this. The concerns about the vaccine were overridden when Trump lost the election. The vaccine wasn't going to get approved for emergency use without going through the FDA protocol. If the FDA was going to bow to pressure on the EUA, they would have done it prior to the election. I believe most people in the know were aware of it. So maybe you were skeptical, but government officials (like the governor of NY), should have never come out and put doubt in people about the vaccine. Just like government officials shouldn't be doing it now.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 2
  4. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

    5,886
    2,786
    1,618
    Dec 11, 2009
    I am not sure I agree with this. The transformation has to come from the people themselves driving to become better educated and stop being lazy and consuming only what FOX or CNN tells them.

    For example....there are the stories in Flint, Michigan. A place where there was initially almost no vaccine interest due to massive mistrust of government officials at nearly every level. However, citizens worried about their fellow man and woman took it upon themselves to set up outreach educational programs to help move folks past the mistrust. The story of the work that Yvonne Lewis is doing in Flint is really awesome.

    How the mistrust caused by the Flint water crisis is seeping into views of the COVID-19 vaccine
     
  5. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    7,990
    959
    1,358
    Apr 16, 2007
    You are saying it wouldn’t have happened to the FDA, but with a different set of outcomes I’m not sure of that. If the vaccine trials had failed, and trump won, do you honestly not think Trump wouldn’t be trying to ram through anything through the approval process? I think he would. That was his M.O. That is how the whole hydroxychloruquin garbage started.

    We can be thankful the opposite and best case scenario played out on both side sides of that scenario. The vaccine are great, and Trump lost.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

    3,292
    274
    333
    Apr 3, 2007
    I would have much preferred that the politicians would have waited to see results of the testing and how the FDA reacted to vaccine approval before tossing a hand grenade into the room.
    Telling everyone that Trump is going to pressure the FDA to approve casts unneeded doubt, even if the vaccine is overwhelmingly ready to go, as it was in early December. Kamala was freaking out thinking the fix was in on this. I don't believe the FDA would have approved if it wasn't ready. In this case, their professional reputations were on the line.

    'I will not take his word for it': Kamala Harris says she would not trust Trump alone on a coronavirus vaccine | CNN Politics

    Here's Kamala talking about the FDA if the vaccine gets approved. - Even if the vaccine was pristine, this did a lot of damage "If past is prologue that they will not, they'll be muzzled, they'll be suppressed, they will be sidelined," Harris said.

    Here's a quote from the article from one of the primary adviser's on the vaccine.

    "Moncef Slaoui, the chief adviser to Operation Warp Speed, said in an interview with Science published Thursday that he would resign from his role if there was undue interference in the Covid-19 vaccine effort.
    "I have to say there has been absolutely no interference," he continued, adding that he would be "out" if he saw a push for a US Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization that he didn't believe in."
     
  7. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

    20,165
    4,328
    1,903
    Apr 8, 2007
    northern MN
    You think the anti-vaxers and anti-maskers are going to just start trusting the information from government and/or the scientific community? I agree with the intent of your post, but have little optimism that a certain contingency will ever start listening to reason.
     
  8. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

    1,175
    80
    233
    May 30, 2007
    Speaking for the ignorant buffoons, We have been loathing liberals much longer.
     
  9. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    23,213
    1,565
    1,608
    Apr 3, 2007
    I don't see "anti-vaxer" vs. "vaxer" as some sort of binary. Think of it as a scale. If 10 is the extreme anti-vax viewpoint, then let's say for the sake of argument, they are not the intended audience. The focus should be on 6, 7, and 8 on that scale...maybe you back some 9's away from the ledge. Remember, the goal isn't to convince everybody, it's to encourage more voluntary participation. The 6's don't ask for much; the 7's might become 6's. The 8's will become curious about what's moving the 7's, etc.

    Communication is the key. And when I say "communication," I don't mean a presentation of what the 1's through 5's think is important, it's a matter of addressing the concerns and questions of the others. And as you allude to, the 10's may not have questions and concerns that can be easily addressed, but the 6's do.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    23,213
    1,565
    1,608
    Apr 3, 2007
    Maybe we took different ideas from that link you posted, but it looks like there was a great emphasis on not being able to trust the government. I'd be curious to know how effective the webinars were (or are). One of the webinars I clicked on from March of this year had fewer than 20 views. I clicked on several and didn't see any with a view count hire than 800, and the higher counts were from over a year ago. Was there a demand for the webinars, or was this someone's attempt to reach people without knowing whether or not there would be a an audience willing to receive the information?

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  11. phatGator

    phatGator GC Hall of Fame

    3,149
    703
    383
    Dec 3, 2007
    Dayton, Ohio
    WES, you are a fountain of clear thinking!
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  12. GameTime1

    GameTime1 GC Hall of Fame

    1,612
    270
    248
    Jul 27, 2015
    Depends on which vaccination, right? There's plenty of vaccines that most fully accept. Then there's the ones like the flu shot which is much less utilized
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

    12,233
    4,014
    1,728
    Oct 30, 2017
    Yeah. True.
     
  14. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

    5,886
    2,786
    1,618
    Dec 11, 2009
    I listened to an entire podcast about Yvonne and her effort (with many others) in partnership with U Michigan-Flint, the Flint Mayor's office and Genesee County Health Department. They organized mass viewings of some webinars, they organized weekly County Health updates, as well as brought in virologists, Vaccine experts and other medical experts to answer questions in the community for anyone who wished to log in an participate.

    According to the daily tracker, Gennesee County where Flint is currently sits at 45.5% of the residents are vaccinated.
     
    • Like Like x 1