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Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorNorth, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    that your business is slowing down....
     
  2. gator95

    gator95 GC Legend

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    good try. Didn’t work though.
     
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  3. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Those raw numbers don’t support the conclusions drawn. Especially those. Which leave out important data points and comparators. All discussed upthread.
     
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  4. gator95

    gator95 GC Legend

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    the numbers are the numbers. You can try to make excuses but that’s all you’re doing.
     
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  5. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    We drove down to a little bbq place south of Jacksonville yesterday. Nice little walkup, take out window, picnic tables in back if you want to eat there.
    Between those waiting to order, ordering and standing around waiting for it to be brought out, I probably saw at least 40 people. I saw one guy, other than us and the staff, wearing masks. Some made a decent attempt at distancing. Others walked right up to other people to ask if they were in line.
    I just don't get it.
     
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  6. gator95

    gator95 GC Legend

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    If it outdoors I don’t have a problem with that at all
     
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  7. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Cuomo says New York followed federal guidelines when sending coronavirus patients to nursing homes - CNNPolitics

    "I just want to reiterate once again that the policy that the Department of Health put out was in line directly with the March 13 directive put out by (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services) that read, and I quote, 'Nursing homes should admit any
    individuals from hospitals where Covid is present,'" said Secretary to the Governor Melissa DeRosa on Saturday during a briefing. "Not could, should ... that is President (Donald) Trump's CMS and CDC."

    The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued a memorandum on March 13 stating, in part, "Nursing homes should admit any individuals that they would normally admit to their facility, including individuals from hospitals where a case of COVID-19 was/is present."

    https://www.cms.gov/files/document/3-13-2020-nursing-home-guidance-covid-19.pdf
     
  8. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    My wife and I went to Tulsa and stopped to eat at a burger place. About half of the people coming in had masks, all the employees had masks. Everyone took their mask off to eat of course and they had removed half of the tables. It seemed okay.
     
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  9. RIP

    RIP VIP Member

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    Please explain what you think those numbers mean. What have the red states done differently that in your opinion have made such a drastic difference? If you could support it with links that would be great.
     
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  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you on Cuomo's decision to send Covid patients back into nursing homes. That was a terrible decision, and there is no way to blame Trump or anyone else for that.

    But the argument that republican-run states are doing better than democrat-run states in general, or that "Open" states are doing better than "Closed" states is something I would probably disagree with. Each of the Closed states listed has densely-populated, vertically-constructed major cities: New York, Philadephia, Newark (suburb of New York), and Detroit, and the virus arrived earlier in those states, before anyone knew how dangerous it was. The virus spread widely in those states before anyone knew they should be taking action. People were encouraged to continue to go to restaurants, which was the wrong advice. Basically, they closed those states later than they should have, and no one told them they should have been wearing masks in public and social distancing. That advice was given to every state at the same time, but the virus in those democrat-run states had already infected too many people. And in New York, it got bad enough that it briefly overwhelmed the hospital's ability to care for the patients. Some patients died in an ambulance outside the hospital waiting to get in.
     
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  11. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Actually, that is wrong. When I have addressed deep dives into your unsupported conclusions from raw numbers, you don't address the analysis or respond to the questions.

    So, don't expect engagement is you are unwilling, or incapable of responding.

    You also ignored @dingyibvs, a doctor with expertises in virology epidemiology who also responded here.

    All you do is repeat the same comment. Because you can't get away from your red state versus blue state point.

    Not to mention you are cherry picking states. Your .latest chart ignores the experiences in California, Arkansas, parts of Alabama, Texas and other places where the rate of growth is increasing.

    While you are spiking the ball and making your red versus blue argument, maybe you can explain the second surge in Arkanssa, or why the national growth rate is increasing when you take out the New York/New Jersey area?

    And you have never addressed the condition that Florida would be in parts of Florida had waited until April 1 to shut down, when DeSantis got around to issue the order.

    In the thread about Sweden, here is what posted about your Cuomo versus DeSantis comparison, and you ignored it.

    After I insert the whole quote,I will excerpt the points you ignored.

    So, for example, comparing Florida to New york is a false comparison because of confounding factors that you ignore.

    The early Florida shut downs saved the state. Particularly in South Florida because the shut downs were early. And I said that many places in Florida, particularly South Florida, would have hospital capacity because snowbirds and tourists were not here. And South Florida has a large hospital capacity, with Jackson Memorial having an unused building. And even with people going back out, it is still relatively quiet in South Florida. A disaster was averted here by quicker action by communities and businesses.

    Now we have to reopen smart.

    I have said my views on Cuomo. New York was blind sided by having been seeded in early to mid-February with the Italian mutation. They have traced the earlier cases. Because of density, congestion and public transportation, the virus then spread very quickly to a lot of people before they became symptomatic. New York had no warning and the National government was underplaying the virus and Trump sat on his intel.

    To stop viral spread, New York should have shut down in early February, but it did not know how rampant the spread was until large numbers started getting sick there, particularly in Westchester County, which is a bedroom suburb. Cuomo made a mistake not shutting down earlier. Once the problem became evident, it was too late. Even then, there were still social and religious gatherings that spread the virus.

    Also, as the growth curve exploded exponentially there, New York had no idea where the top was.

    So while you criticize Cuomo for sending people to nursing homes, New York did not have good alternatives because it needed every available space and was asking for volunteer doctors and nurses. Now, why don’t you tell me what Cuomo should have done and when? Should he have shut down the state when Trump was telling everyone at the end of February that the country had only 15 cases on the West Coast and the virus was under control and the cases were going to zero? When Trump did not follow the CDC recommendations on foreign travel? What different information did Cuomo have that supported a different course of action and when and what would the effect have been? Because the disaster that New York would become very quickly was already set in motion before anyone knew it there. Since you constantly criticize Cuomo based on the disaster there, Why don’t you break it down for us in detail instead of challenging every poster (including the doctor who laid it out last night)? Identify the information Cuomo had, when, and what he should have done differently when he had that information.
     
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  12. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Actually, Cuomo followed federal guidance in doing that. See the links I posted in 11487.

    No doubt that the CDC has a lot to answer for in this, too.
     
  13. gator95

    gator95 GC Legend

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    I wonder why Florida didn’t do that? Because it was a dumb decision. Stop making excuses
     
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  14. gator95

    gator95 GC Legend

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    There’s so much spin going on in this long diatribe of crap that I’m not even going to bother to respond
     
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  15. RIP

    RIP VIP Member

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    That's a copout.
     
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  16. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    like any arguement there are 3 sides of the story, mine, yours, and the truth. we have here 3 sides, the anti-trump, the pro-trump, and the truth.
     
  17. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Which is why there is no way for anyone to have a discussion with you about your conclusions about what numbers represent.
     
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  18. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Until an affected person coughs or sneezes on ya.
     
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  19. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    but, like you want, if you have a mask on, it will not harm you.
     
  20. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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