Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorNorth, Feb 25, 2020.
Ok, THAT was funny.
Appears it is still up in the air:
Some Swedish hospitals have stopped using Chloroquine to treat COVID-19 after reports of severe side effects
I approve this message.
I get that you and other dislike Trump, but to suggest that is really screwed up. For any person to believe that Trump would try to profit over saving Americans is sick and pathetic.
When you have a history of being a grifter and a con artist, that's unfortunately what happens. People will question your motives.
There is mixed evidence based on small sample studies that lack many controls. From first mention, people have been racing way ahead of the science when what they really need to do is turn around a take a deeper look at the limitations and confounding factors. It's why Fauci has been pooh poohing it. As far as NYC, I think widespread use of it almost certainly reflects hail mary desperation to save lives. Understandable, but not evidence of effectiveness.
No not really, only someone with a mind like yours
In a nutshell---------
Trump Says ‘Nobody’ Knew Pandemic Was Coming. His Adviser Warned Of It In January. | HuffPost
But according to reports in The New York Times and Axios on Monday, at least one top official in Trump’s own administration sounded the alarm ― in late January and then again in February ― about the potentially catastrophic impacts of the virus that causes COVID-19 on the United States.
In a Jan. 29 memo about the coronavirus addressed to the National Security Council, Peter Navarro, President Trump’s trade adviser, warned that the “risk of a worst-case pandemic scenario should not be overlooked,” the Times reported. The disease could kill up to half a million Americans, Navarro warned in the document, and cost the U.S. trillions of dollars if no action was taken to contain the virus.
“The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on U.S. soil,” the memo read.
Nah dude is a troll and a grifter of the highest order. Wouldn’t shock me at all to find out he’s in bed with pharmaceutical CEOs to make a quick buck from this situation. That’s how little I think of him as a person.
Next Trump will fire Navarro for making him look incompetent, although that’s not difficult to do.
"I mean take my wife...please! Thanks folks I'll be here all week. Be sure and tip your waitress". That's Dice Clay level comedy.
I’ve put in several updates. The most recent are on January 29th, February 23rd and April. I will continue to edit this with relevant additions or corrections. Any errors are based on my competence, or lack thereof, and not intent. I tried to get everything from reliable sources. It is pretty clear what my point of view is based on some things (golf) I've included in the timeline. If I've got something wrong, let me know and I'll fix it. (I had created a thread for this but I think this thread gets the most traffic)
11/17 South China Morning Post says that the first cases of CV can be traced back to November 17th. China was not transparent at that time or for sometime thereafter.
12/31 They start treating cases in China
1/11 1st reported death in China
1/16 Impeachment trial starts (listing because of McConnell distraction comments)
1/17 W.H.O. publishes a protocol for with instructions needed for any country to manufacture CV tests. The same day the CDC said they had developed their own test not relying on any of those protocols.
1/20 Japan, South Korea & Thailand are first additional countries to report CV cases
1/21 1st case reported in US
1/22 Trump “Its one person coming from China. We have it under control. Its going to be fine.”
1/24 Trump tweets his appreciation of China’s effort and transparency.
1/24 Alex Azar appointed head of a CV task force.
1/28 W.H.O. has CV tests available
1/29 Republican Senator Tom Cotton steps out of impeachment trial to spend 4 hours with the administration talking about the CV. He tells them “It’s the most important story in the world.”
1/29 White House Economic Advisor Peter Navarro writes a memo to the National Security Council. The memo described possible outcomes of Aggressive Containment versus No Containment. In the No Containment scenario he a mentions half a million deaths and trillions of dollars in cost as possible outcomes. (You can Google “Peter Navarro January 29 Memo Axios” for an article that describes the memo and one Navarro wrote in February directly to the President)
1/30 W.H.O. declares a global health emergency
1/31 Trump issues travel restrictions on China
1/31 HHS Secretary Alex Azar declares a public health emergency.
2/1 Trump at Mar-a-Lago – golf at Trump International
2/2 1st death outside of China
2/2 Trump at Mar-a-Lago
2/5 Impeachment trial ends
2/5 Senator Chris Murphy tweeted: “Just left the Administration briefing on Coronavirus. Bottom line: they aren't taking this seriously enough. Notably, no request for ANY emergency funding, which is a big mistake. Local health systems need supplies, training, screening staff etc. And they need it now.”
2/5 Diamond Princess quarantine begins
2/5 CDC announces it will start shipping test kits to public health labs around the US
2/6 W.H.O. announces they have already shipped 250,000 kits to over 70 countries
2/7 Chinese doctor that raised alarm about CV dies from CV19
2/7 Trump says “as weather warms… the virus hopefully becomes weaker and then gone”
2/10 Trump has a rally in Manchester
2/10 Trump says “I think the virus is going to be – its going to be fine”
2/12 We learn that the tests the CDC is developing for CV are flawed
2/14 France has the first CV19 death in Europe
2/15 Trump at Mar-a-Lago – golf at Trump International
2/19 Trump has a rally in Phoenix
2/20 Trump has a rally in Colorado Springs
2/21 Trump has a rally in Las Vegas
2/23 White House Economic Advisor Peter Navarro writes another memo. This one is directly addressed to President Trump. A part of the memo describes the cost ($618 million) of a needed billion face masks, 200,000 Tyvek suits, 3.3 billion gloves and 11,000 ventilators. Another section talked about cost of therapeutics and Redesevir. Another section talked cost of vaccine development. At the end Navarro says the bottom line is there need for $3.0 billion in supplemental appropriations. The last line on page 4 is “Time is of the essence for all four points of the PPE, treatment, vaccine and diagnostics” (My comment – The AP did a review of federal purchasing contracts. They found that federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 masks, ventilators and other PPE. So Navarro warns of potential catastrophic costs in January and details some specific costs of a containment effort on 2/23 and it is weeks until orders are placed. And then the next day, see below, the administration requests $1.25 billion new funding, well short of Navarro’s estimate. Even the total $2.5 billion funding request, including another $1.25 billion moved from other budgets, is less than Navarro’s first pass estimate. And a day after that Trump tweets at Schumer for wanting too much money.)
2/23 Italy sees a surge in cases and locks downs 10 towns
2/24 Trump tweets “Coronavirus is very much under control in the US”
2/24 Market drops about 1,000 points
2/24 Administration asks congress for $1.25 billion for CV response (The $1.25 billion is new funding. Another $1.25 billion was proposed to be moved into CV response from and Ebola fund)
2/25 Trump Tweets “Cryin’ Chuck Schumer is complaining, for publicity purposes only, that I should be asking for more money than $2.5 Billion to prepare for Coronavirus. If I asked for more he would say it is too much. He didn’t like my early travel closings. I was right. He is incompetent!” (My comment – 17 days later Trump administration declares a national emergency and provides 20 times that amount, $50 billion in federal funds to the state)
2/26 Pence put in charge of CV task force
2/26 Trump says “When you have 15 people and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down close to zero”
2/27 Federal health officials announce they have resolved the problems with the CV tests
2/28 Trump has a rally in North Charleston
2/28 Starting to see spread across Europe
2/28 Trump says “Its going to disappear. One day, its like a miracle it will disappear”
2/28 Trump says (I included the relevant part for context. “The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. This is their new hoax” (My comment – No, he didn’t call the virus a hoax. But, he did characterize Democrats ringing an alarm as propagating a hoax rather than acknowledging they were rightly worried about the looming threat that he later said we were at war with…)
2/29 1st US death and we issue a travel warning for Italy, South Korea and Iran.
2/29 FDA eases guidelines to speed testing development
3/1 US Health and Human Services says they are launching an investigation into the manufacturing defects in the CDC’s CV tests
3/2 Trump has a rally in Charlotte
3/3 CDC lifts restrictions on testing to fast track development after their initial efforts at producing a test failed.
3/6. Trump makes a visit to CDC wearing a red Keep America Great hat
3/6 Trump says “Anybody that wants a test can get a test” (To this day there are healthcare workers on the front line still not able to get a test.)
3/6 The New York Post publishes an article about a nurse that can’t get tested. She was put in a 14-day self-quarantine and, based on the nurse’s symptoms, a doctor and county officials agreed that the nurse should be tested. “But the National CDC [Centers for Disease Control] would not initiate testing,” the nurse said. (There are similar stories out there today. Anyone paying any attention knows that testing is still much more limited than is needed and that anybody that needs a test cannot get a test. Some can. Not enough can.)
3/6 Trump says “My experts would like to have the people come off. I’d rather have the people stay, but I’d go with them. I told them to make the final decision.¹ I would rather—because I like the numbers being where they are. I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault”
3/7 Trump at Mar-a-Lago – golf at Trump International
3/8 Trump at Mar-a-Lago – golf at Trump International
3/9 Trump says “So last year 37K Americans died from the common flu. It averages 27,000 and 70,000 per year. At this moment there are 546 cases and 22 deaths. Think about that”
3/11 Trump bans continental Europe travel, except for the UK.
3/13 US declares a national emergency and provides $50 billion in federal funds to the states.
3/15 CDC recommends gatherings be limited to no more than 50 people
3/15 Trump says “This is a very contagious virus. Its incredible. But it is something we have tremendous control over.” (My comment – 3 days later he says he is a wartime president. About two weeks later the tremendous control becomes something that will kill 100,000 or more if we act perfectly)
3/16 Administration announces 15 Days to Slow the Spread
3/18 Trump says he is a wartime President
3/19 California issues statewide stay at home order.
3/24 Trump says “Look: Easter's a very special day for me. And I see it sort of in that timeline that I'm thinking about. And I say, 'Wouldn't it be great to have all the churches full?'" Trump said. "The churches aren't allowed, essentially, to have much of a congregation there," he continued, later noting that Christians have been unable to worship in person.
"You'll have packed churches all over our country. I think it would be a beautiful time, and it's just about the timeline that I think is right,"
(My comment – 6 days earlier Trump says he is a wartime President. 7 days later the administration says that if they do everything perfectly we can expect between 100,000 and 200,000 deaths. For the life of me I don’t know how telling Americans Easter is a beautiful timeline to have packed churches fits between wartime President and 100K+ dead.)
3/27 $2.2 trillion stimulus signed
3/27 Trump says “If they don’t treat you right, I don’t call,” Trump said of those state leaders. “I think they should be appreciative. Because you know what? When they’re not appreciative to me, they’re not appreciative to the Army Corps [of Engineers], they’re not appreciative to FEMA. It’s not right,”
Trump said that Pence “calls all the governors. And I tell him, I’m a different type of person, and I say, ’Mike, don’t call the governor of Washington. You’re wasting your time with him.”
“Don’t call the woman in Michigan. It doesn’t make any difference what happens,” Trump also said he told Pence, who leads the U.S. response to the coronavirus.
"All I want them to do, very simple, I want them to be appreciative. I don't want them to say things that aren't true. I want them to be appreciative. We've done a great job.”
3/28 3.3 million jobs lost this week
3/29 Trump tweets - “President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news, roughly the viewership of the season finale of ‘The Bachelor.’ Numbers are continuing to rise...“ (Millions out of work and two days away from telling the nation 100,000+ plus will die and he’s using the bully pulpit to talk about ratings.)
3/31 The administration tells the American public that if we do things perfectly we can expect between 100,000 and 200,00 deaths.
4/2 6.6 million jobs lost this week. (My comment - I'm sure everyone posting on this forum knows somebody that has been impacted. We are all hoping we get through this quickly and your friends and family return to work sooner rather than later.)
4/2 The acting Secretary of the Navy relieves the captain of the carrier of his command for not following the chain of command with his letter about his ship with 100+ positive Covid 19 sailors needing help. (My comment - we have an acting Secretary because the Defense Secretary forced out the previous Secretary of the Navy during fallout from Trump reinstating the Seal accused of war crimes.)
4/2 The government changed the wording on the website that references the purpose of our strategic stockpile. The edits came shortly after the President’s son in law came under fire for his description of the stockpiles intended use.
4/3 The administration recommends we wear non medical cloth face masks when we go out.
4/7 Acting Sec Nav Modly addresses the crew on the carrier and makes reference to the Captain being either stupid or naïve for sending the memo or betraying the chain of command. When asked about it later he said he stands by every word. Later yet, Modly apologized. (Side note -He is the acting Sec Nav because the previous Sec Nav lost his job in connection with Trump granting clemency to the Seal that was accused of war crimes.)
4/6 The Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human services publishes the results of a survey of 323 hospitals covering 46 states. It shows hospital administrators expressing concerns about lack of testing, PPE and supplies as simple as thermometers and hand sanitizer. The survey was conducted between March 23-27.
At a press conference Trump is asked about the report. Trump’s replies – “Did I hear the word Inspector General? It’s wrong. Where did it come from, the Inspector General? What’s his name? Find his name, let me know.It still could be her opinion. When was she appointed? Do me a favor and let me know. Let me know now. I have to know”
(My comment – Trump is less interested in what actual hospital administrators are saying than he is in who compiled the report. Think that through. Think through how that mindset impacts how the government is responding to this emergency up and down the line.)
4/7 Sec Nav Modly resigns
I don’t know that by posting an article link anyone is suggesting the motivation.
Personally, I could believe that Trump has a financial stake in the drug AND he thinks its works. In fact, those two would almost be the same thing. I think he actually believes almost everything that comes out of his mouth.
The central issue is that Trump’s standard of evidence for believing something is clearly quite a bit different than the scientific standard. Therefore by espousing his own beliefs, he could be putting out non-scientific information about how to treat the virus.
A small Korean study throws some shade of the effectiveness of surgical and cotton masks when an infected wearer coughs. Does emphasize "hand hygene" after handling a mask due to the test masks having more viruses outside the mask than inside after a cough. Interesting.
This was a limited test that didn't measure volume or maximum distance of coughs with these devices as opposed to sans.
Effectiveness of Surgical and Cotton Masks in Blocking SARS–CoV-2: A Controlled Comparison in 4 Patients | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians
Updated stats from the World o meter site as of 8 am this morning. Wyoming still with 0 deaths. ranked by deaths/mm people.
I bolded Florida just to make it easier to find.
"Pretty freaking low" is your standard MO. That you would clutch your pearls in defense of Trump as if you had any credibility is laughable.
Even before I was a mod, I never used the ignore feature. I don't get the point.
It makes the thread choppy I would think and it seems boring.
To each his own I suppose.
I agree with you. Even if all the "funny" ratings were being honest, they might too. But they have to toe the company line, so they all rated your post "funny". I mean think about it. Even if they are correct in that Trump only cares about himself, (highly possible btw), then Trump stands to gain way more by being reelected than he does with a couple of bucks from a mutual fund that has this company as a contributor. (A lot of people don't even pay attention to what the funds are tied to).
Trump has money. He likely cares more about power at this point. Power is benefited by being POTUS. Fewer deaths increase his chances of remaining POTUS.
Gotta keep with the Trump is Satan narrative any way they can.