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Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorNorth, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Should the public
    schools be able to require vaccines? What other public health programs would you oppose? Flouride in potable water?
     
  2. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    I've seen many active and healthy children blow right through COVID; it's certainly not compellingly obvious for them to take it when and if it becomes available for them. There's obviously a slope in between that and diabetic + overweight + inactive + reclusive 80-year old, right? At some point on the slope, it becomes ambiguous as to whether or not one should get it. To some degree, it's a risk assessment, but we are not being provided with all the information. You could even provide a financial calculator based on known risk factors. That could be a powerful tool to help people re-evaluate their risk assessment.

    Interesting analogy; I would compare "drunk driving" to knowingly having COVID and coughing in the presence of others. But people are perfectly within their rights to get drunk at home, for example. I like the comparison because it includes realization that we can't mandate away getting drunk, but we can attempt to control behavior of those who choose to get drunk. We can provide lots of information that shows them why it's not a good idea. I wonder how many people choose not to get drunk and drive with their kids in the car because it is illegal vs. how many do it because they've been educated on the risks involved. If we were serious about preventing drunk driving, we'd mandate breathalyzers in every car so that they could start. Probably just a cost:benefit analysis that discourages such a thing at this point.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  3. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    With exemptions? Sure. I think there's a difference between having a soft mandate and one that doesn't allow for non-medical exceptions. I'd even be fine with requiring a waiver to be signed that had people acknowledge the potential risks involved with not being vaccinated as long as it was genuinely tied to a person's explicit risk factors.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  4. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    I have no idea what this means. So you think a signature on a disclaimer form is sufficient to allow you to spread and infect others with a potentially fatal virus?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    Does the vaccine not significantly prevent others from dying? I don't think an unvaccinated person has the right to complain that they interacted with another unvaccinated person. Or if there is a unique case where a person could not receive the vaccine, I believe that an accommodation should be worked out.

    Moreover, would it be acceptable if a vaccinated individual spread the disease which led to the other person dying? Maybe we should go back to negative tests regardless of vaccination status.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  6. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    Playing Devil's advocate here the Flu for some it potentially fatal should that be mandatory?
    Same with RSV and Hep C.
     
  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    a simple, easy opt-out with no requirement than one's personal beliefs would lead to widespread reemergence. We saw that happen in Washington state when a group of nonvaxxers reached a critical mass. Are you okay with widespread measles, smallpox, etc knowing that those vaccines only protect a certain percentage too? Lets say measles has a 80& efficacy, are you okay with those 20% that are going to be infected with measles so that others can opt out with just personal preference?
     
  8. coleg

    coleg All American

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    Usually the flu does not have the extremely high transmission rate as covid, and there are numerous workplaces that do require flu shots. I've never seen a gov't mandate for flu vax, but polio, MMR and smallpox have been mandated.
     
  9. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Europeans playing catch up with the US as their regulatory agency takes up the debate on authorizing the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine for children 5 through 11. The EMA is debating authorization not on the basis of the dangers of COVID to children that age, but due to the dangers that children represent as they can spread the disease to those more vulnerable.

    EU plans to boost reach of Pfizer COVID-19 shot
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    No and no. But I don't think that not mandating vaccines means we have to give up on effective approaches. For what it's worth, 44 states provide for either religious exemptions or philosophical exemptions (or both).

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  11. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    7day new case average lowest since july 29th. 7 day death average lowest since august 24. guess it is time for fauci to come out of hidding and throw cold water on the positives, afterall, it is what he does.
     
  12. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    overall average from day 1 at 6.75%
     
  13. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Good point. He is pretty likely sitting in his lab cultivating the Omicron Variant right now that will sweep the nation in time to ruin the holidays.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
    • Funny Funny x 2
  14. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Does the fact that you have given some version of this post almost immediately before each spike in the virus give you pause about saying it again?
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  15. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    what, me a jinx, never...........
     
  16. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    yeah, you got me, i am on fauci's secret payroll to keep him in the news by jinxing the numbers......
     
  17. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Not really arguing "jinx." More arguing that perhaps you shouldn't be mad at Fauci because he provides more accurate information immediately prior to spikes than you do (even though you wish that wasn't the case).
     
  18. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Here's a chart that shows death rates, by age, comparing vaccinated with the unvaccinated.

    [​IMG]

    The vaccine isn't perfect, but hard to argue that it isn't effective based on this chart. Also confirms previous British findings that a vaccinated 80-year old is similar to an unvaccinated 50 year old when it comes to outcomes when infected.

    And while deaths 17 and younger are miniscule, any death prevented at this age is important. Not to mention, if we truly want to protect those 80 and older, the best way to do this is herd immunity. The vaccine isn't perfect at preventing breakthrough cases either, but does prevent a significant number of cases. Reach herd immunity, and we could get cases down close to zero. As a lagging indicator, death rates would also drop accordingly.
     
  19. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    well i guess since he is not talking a spike is not in the future then, right?
     
  20. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Perhaps not. So then why are you so triggered by all the times before that you chose to bring him up for doing something that he is not doing?