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Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorNorth, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    COVID-19 Vaccines in Children and Adolescents

    This is American association of pediatrics position. Get kids vaxed if there are no specific conditions that would prohibit doing so. To the extent your pediatrician advises otherwise, he is going against accepted guidance.

    Not all MDs go 100% with accepted positions.
     
  2. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    Like I said, I'm fine with our doctor's currrent position on the vaccine. What I'm looking to do is bridge the gap of information so there's no room for hostility when the discussion for children's vaccines advances further than it already has. Nobody has the right to be hostile or even frustrated until people get their questions answered, and then let's look and see what the answers tell us.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  3. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    What information is missing? You keep saying that , yet I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Just curious, what is the basis from your pediatrician recommending against vaccination?
     
  4. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    To be clear, I feel like you have asked me this before, and I have directly answered your question. That said, I don't mind repeating it as I think it is important.

    I would like to see a breakdown by age of kids and how they are being impacted by COVID (not just "children" but more granular or justification that granular isn't showing anything different). For example, are we seeing significantly different data amongst 5-7 year olds as compared to 15-17 year olds? Among the folks that are hospitalized, how many of them are in because of COVID vs. in with COVID? What is the average length of time for a COVID hospitalization (for those in because of COVID), is there a distinction by age? What are the known risk factors of those hospitalized because of COVID and can we breakdown the impact between those with "no known risk factors" and everybody else?

    These are just some of the ones that jump to the top of my head. What can we do to get folks like yourself more on board with getting access to more data?

    *She* says it's not necessary for healthy children, they do fine with their natural immunity. She's clear to point out that healthy includes significant activity; proper diet and with supplements (for general immune health). She also says that the only children hospitalized because of COVID have a risk factor. She's helped us in the past with more than any of the linked experts ever have, so she's earned our trust, and that's sufficient for our family.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  5. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    Show me the risk of a healthy 15 year old teen dying from covid. I'd say it's zero. Myocarditis can be serious for athletes, which my son is. There is as close to zero risk there is of a healthy teen boy dying from covid. I'm good with my decision. Dumb to vaccinate kids who are at times 3 times smaller than some adults with the same dosage of a vaccine. Let's get all the data and then when the FDA approves it for kids i'll most likely get my kids vaccinated. Until then I have zero worries for their health.
     
  6. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Yes I did previously ask, and forgot your answer. I'll probably forget again.

    I imagine some of that info exists. Some of it would be interesting. But much of it I don't see as that relevant. The context of these questions seem to be can we find pockets where vaccines aren't needed as much, and exclude those groups because we think the vaccines may be dangerous or have unknown risks.

    I don't think there are any other vaccines where we cherry pick age groups and treat them differently.

    And finally, at the risk of being a broken record, all of these questions ignore the benefit of community based immunity.
     
  7. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    Maybe, let's include past history of COVID into the picture. Perhaps another reason why the vaccine just wouldn't be necessary for children. But let the information shine through louder than the opinions.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  8. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Here is the CDC dashboard that has COVID deaths by age. They break things down into groups, so it's impossible to single out a specific age, but from 0-17, 464 deaths. 15-24, 1,372 deaths. The risk is higher than zero, but it's not very high.

    This article looks at myocarditis in kids, pre-COVID, and the risks overall are also very low for mortality. And becomes lower when the disease is being monitored for early. Which is what happened with the vaccine. We knew there was potential risk of myocarditis from the vaccine with kids, so kids who received the vaccine were told to report any potential condition beyond 48 hours. My daughter received a rather comprehensive sheet. As a result, any and all incidences of myocarditis were likely caught early enough that to date, there have been zero cases in the US of pediatric death due to vaccine caused myocarditis.

    When it comes right down to it, they risks from COVID and the risks from the vaccine are very low. Hospitalizations tip towards the vaccine slightly, but deaths tip towards COVID. Add in the community effect of vaccination, which lowers the R0, and for me and my family, the answer was clear. Get the kid vaccinated.
     
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  9. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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  10. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    There have been 58,000 covid hospitalizations for those 17 and under.

    What do we know about COVID-19 in kids now?

    Seems to me having to send your kid to the hospital is something to be avoided. Arguably some of those were not covid hospitalizations, but coincidental infections, but even if it's 40,000 that isn't a trivial number and much bigger than 6000 myocardial hospitalizations via vaccines. People aren't comparing apples to apples. Also of the 40000 pure covid admissions I'm sure there were instances of myocardial issues too, which could have exceeded 6000.

    There is nothing in this data that suggests that the vaccine is more dangerous to kids than the actual disease. Quite the opposite.
     
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  11. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    this info is probably what this nurse found when she “did her research” on the internet.


    “An Idaho nurse who told her family not to get vaccinated, even as her mother was in a coma caused by COVID-19“

    "Her brother said he thinks it was from misinformation, “ I think it was falling into negative social media and bloggers, YouTubers,"

    “The nurse has died of the disease“”

    An Idaho nurse who told her family not to get vaccinated even as her mother was in a coma from COVID-19 has died of the disease
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  12. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    You aren't taking into account the almost 40% of covid deaths that have zero to do with covid. So knock that off the number. Also just about 50% of pediatric hospitalizations "with" covid aren't because of covid but for something else. Numbers are super low. Just about zero risk to my son. I'm good with him having covid over the vaccine at this point. Maybe that will change when more data comes out(lower dosage for kids). My son has a zero chance of being vaccinated and am 100% comfortable with that decision.
     
  13. Gatoragman

    Gatoragman GC Legend

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    Under Biden over 300,000 COVID Deaths. Almost 45% of total deaths under his watchful control and had a vaccine his entire presidency. Talk about miss handling the pandemic!!!!
     
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  14. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    As I said in another post, even if 99% of the kids who died with COVID died from other reasons, it's still a number greater than 0. And 0 is the number of kids who have died from vaccine caused myocarditis so far to date.

    As for hospitalizations, we are talking extremely low odds with either COVID or myocarditis. Less than 1 student per high school, as odds are around 1 in 15,000. Even for a boy, those odds are at worst, 1 in 6,000, and again, no odds of dying. I find it odd you are OK with taking the odds if your kid catches COVID, which carries a risk, albeit low, of death. But are not OK with the extremely low odds of hospitalization from the vaccine, which to date, carries zero risk of death.

    Especially when you consider community benefits of the vaccine. Kids are a part of the herd. And kids, especially those 12 and older, certainly spread the virus around. Having kids vaccinated, just like having adults vaccinated, will lower the R0 rate of the virus.

    Your choice on not vaccinating your kid. I'm quite comfortable with my decision, and my teenager has been fully vaccinated since the end of June, no complications. Can't wait until my soon to be 8-year old is eligible. Will likely get the Pfizer, which in kids under 12, is 1/3 the dosage of what an adult receives.
     
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  15. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Ocala
  16. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    Your hospitalization numbers are off though. Need to account for the 50% that aren't in the hospital for covid, just "with" covid. I am super comfortable with my kids not having the vaccine at this point. I have no idea if my kids already had covid or not. Before I would ever think about getting any vaccince for them, I would have them take an antibody test. IF they have antibodies, then zero chance they are taking the vaccine at that point until there is full fda approval.
     
  17. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    Dr. Q in the house!
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    It's not an easy call. It's extremely low risk of hospitalization with a lower risk of death versus a slightly higher risk of hospitalization with to date, no risk of death. For me, I'd choose door #2. But it's a judgement call.

    But that's just on a micro, personal level. There is also the macro, public health issues that need to be factored in. Again, kids are part of the herd. And certainly kids 12 and older have always been part of the spread of the virus. The sooner we lower the R0 rate to below 1, the quick we can put COVID in the rearview. Child vaccinations will help with the cause. Child vaccinations will also lower the chance of a new variant, as again, the R0 will be reduced.

    Add it all up, and I believe the benefits of vaccinating the kids outweighs the risk. A few more kids may end up in the hospital, but we're not talking thousands. At the same time, a few more kids will also stay out of the morgue. Again, not thousands, but if we can save just 1 kid, it's worth it. And overall? The closer we get to herd immunity, the better.
     
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  19. G8tas

    G8tas All American

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    I'm not sure if you're in Florida, but some lawmakers, county commissioners and media have been pleading for that information from the State but they have resisted so a lawsuit has been filed. The argument from the State is that it's confidential

    State representative suing Florida Department of Health over COVID-19 data
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  20. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Judge rules Gainesville cannot enforce vaccine mandate

    Gainesville — Circuit Judge Monica Brasington rules the city of Gainesville must not enforce its vaccine mandate and cannot discipline, or terminate, employees for failing to get vaccinated.

    "The city failed to put on any evidence that the Vaccine Mandate serves a compelling state interest or that the Vaccine Mandate was the least restrictive means to accomplish that interest," wrote Judge Brasington, in an order signed at 1:45 Wednesday.

    "Given the court’s ruling, we will continue our efforts to improve vaccination rates among our workforce through education and incentives. We recognize the reality of vaccine hesitancy and vaccine disinformation but agree with public health experts that vaccination is key in the fight against the COVID-19 pandemic," said Gainesville Public Information Officer Rossana Passaniti.

    City Commissioners voted to require city employees be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 by October 30th. If an employee did not get vaccinated by then, that employee could face discipline up to termination.