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Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorNorth, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Would you rather be prepared for a variant that me be equally dangerous to children? Or just hope it never happens?
     
  2. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    We have ZERO data that shows covid is dangerous to kids. You'd rather inject kids with a vaccine that isn't FDA approved. I'll stick with the former thanks.
     
  3. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Did you read the link about Brazil? Kids there are getting sick and dying at the same rates as adults. Could be poor conditions. Could be a be variant. Still needs further study.

    Meanwhile, millions of COVID vaccines and very few problems. Kids 12-15 have reacted as expected, which is exactly like adults. Trials for younger kids will likely show the same results.

    So, what's the best, safest alternative? A vaccine that's proven safe to everyone so far, that could lead to herd immunity? Or allowing the virus to spread and mutate and hope the Brazilian variant isn't as dangerous to as it is to adults?
     
  4. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    The what if game has no end.
    What if you have a breakthrough case. What then?
    What if a bus runs you over as you are leaving the vaccine site?
    What if...what it...what if...

    I think the vaccine is a great step in modern medicine. I assume there will be no long term negative effects.
    But this constant demonization and fear mongering to convince others to get it is beyond silly.

    My liberal governor basically ended all restrictions in my state. He did that based on something the doctors were telling him. He did it WAY ahead of his original date.
    Even he is done with the "what if's" at this point.

    1/2 of my state has 1 shot. Many more have antibodies. Almost all of the vulnerable populations have gotten the shot. 1/2 of the people out today are still masked and many businesses still require it 100%. I have always supported that approach. I also support the goal of getting all of those vulnerable vaccinated. I support the opinion of those who want a high percentage vaccinated, but if some magical high % were the end all that you are pushing here, then why did my liberal governor suddenly and without notice call off the whole thing in an unexpected instant?

    Here is my what if. What if the vaccine is doing exactly what they hoped. What if the number of vaxed and the number who have previous antibodies is doing a lot of damage to this virus, and what if even liberal politicians are seeing that and hearing it from experts behind closed doors to the point of changing directional policy overnight?

    I am moving closer and closer personally to getting the vaccine. Doing my own research and not being pushed by either side has been my goal all along, but these constant silly infinitesimal what if's are not something that is going to move peoples meters. In fact they have the opposite impact. Silly "what if's" actually make people laugh it off.
     
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  5. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    Go look at VAER's and report back to me. Now this is only thru 4/20/21, as VAERS is woefully behind because their system is overloaded with reports.

    [​IMG]

    I'm going to make the easy choice and not get my kids vaccinated. You do what you want, myself and millions of other parents will wait until a lot more data is available.
     
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  6. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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  7. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    VAER’s is part of how the CDC found out about the blood clots in the JNJ vaccine, you know, they one that got emergency approval and then got paused? VAER’s isn’t perfect but it works in finding out adverse affects from vaccines. Sorry to burst your bubble, but these vaccines aren’t perfect and anyone over 18 should get it, but those under have no reason to get it unless they have a preexisting condition. Zero chance my kids are getting the vaccine until it’s fda approved
     
  8. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Your kids. Your choice. But if the Brazil variant is one that is as dangerous to kids the other variants are to adults, then you are probably going to want to get your kids vaccinated. Do it now, reach herd immunity, and we don't have to worry too much about any variants.
     
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  9. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    You are literally making up stuff. The vaccine might not work on kids with the Brazilian variant since you are just spitballin’. I don’t care. There is zero risk to my kids. I hope nothing bad happens to anyone’s kids who take the vaccine, but I’m going to follow the science, and that is to do nothing for my kids. They are at a significantly higher risk of the flu than Covid, so time to move on from the room and gloom scenarios. We have been back to normal all year except for masks and now that’s gone. Life in Florida is 99% back to normal for the rational people. The crazies can stay in their basement, doesn’t affect my life at all.
     
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  10. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    832 Brazilian kids under 6 have died from COVID-19 so far. Only 241 in the US. Brazil has about 2/3 of the population of the US. If the variant is to blame, then you are now looking at a COVID-19 variant that is more dangerous than the flu.

    It's true that there is no guarantee the vaccine will protect against the Brazil variant. But so far, the vaccines have been effective against all variants. And by far, the best way to prevent other variants from popping up is herd immunity.

    Sorry, but you are not following the science if you want to take the most preventative action to keep everyone as safe as possible. The science says herd immunity is our best shot at beating COVID-19, and the science says the longer COVID-19 spreads, the greater the likelihood of variants. Let's hope the Brazil variant isn't significantly more dangerous to kids. And let's hope there is never a variant that is vaccine resistant. And let's hope we reach herd immunity as fast as possible.
     
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  11. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    You nor I have any clue why those children died but logic says it wasn’t Covid. No other variant has come close to affecting kids. You are wanting to inject kids with something that isn’t authorized by the fda and frankly isn’t an emergency for kids. You are ignoring those facts. You keep playing the what if game, I’ll live my life and not have my kids get a vaccine that they don’t need nor is authorized.

    Science says Covid is less dangerous to kids than the flu. That is a irrefutable fact. You keep wondering what might happen, I’ll go with the data.
     
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  12. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    I like how just one post prior, you accused him of “literally making up stuff”. Then when given the stats, your next post leads with this gem.
     
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  13. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    So in all of the world, now Covid strikes kids? I'll go with BS until confirmed. You keep believing everything you read and wear 2 masks.
     
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  14. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    I was with you right up until this comment. Why?? Cooper is a politician and wished to continue to be a politician and therefore had to bend to the voters. Further, Cooper is a first class liar who has been preaching one thing and has been recorded far too often doing the exact opposite of what he has been telling the people of North Carolina to do. So, part B of my answer is, I seriously doubt Cooper believed much in the seriousness of this virus to begin with.

    This is one of the most rational responses that I have read on here in a long time. My problem with some of the people around me on this subject is so few of them really understand, really choose not to try and understand and consider "doing research" watching Fox or CNN. Kind of what a different poster in a different thread accused me of doing with the CDC, despite the fact that I have listened to podcasts, read published and pre-prints and read through on-line study data for more than a year now and was able to provide data/resources to my own doctor during my last physical visit. I applaud your methodical, self-guided approach and on continuing to do your own work. More people need to take that approach.....on both ends of the political spectrum.
     
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  15. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    Here in lies the issue.... there has not been enough follow up to truly know what side effects there are. We don't even have one year of data from the phase 2 trials.

    Feel free to get your kids vaccinated, I'll hold off for now, unless there is some big upswing in the mortality rate in kids.

    There also is not guarantee that the vaccines work on the brazil variant(not enough data).
     
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  16. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    The mRNA in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines contain no retro-virus markers. The chances of long term effects are incredibly small. Remember, 30 years of research has gone into creating mRNA vaccines.

    While we don't know if the Brazil variant is deadlier to kids or not, to claim Brazil is lying about the number of 6 and under deaths from COVID-19 is disgusting. And we have no reason to dispute those numbers, unless you have an agenda. What purpose would Brazil have for inflating the numbers?

    What we do know is how effective and safe the vaccine has been to date. And that around 75% of a population vaccinated for COVID-19, herd immunity kicks in. We don't know if there will be a vaccine resistant variant, but if are to beat COVID and reduce the risk for all to its lowest possible number, herd immunity is absolutely the best chance we have. Or, you can continue to believe countries are making up death totals.
     
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  17. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Funny you use THAT number with THAT poster.
     
  18. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Pandemics create major dilemmas, with no good answers. Shut down and potentially save lives, but ruin the economy short term? And what happens if you don't shut down, the pandemic is the stuff of nightmares, hospitals are overrun, and people self-isolate? That's the worst of both worlds, as the economy shuts down and lives that might have been save are now lost.

    When it comes to the vaccine, yes there are risks. But the rewards far outweigh the risks. Ask any medical professional what is the best way to end the pandemic and guarantee the answer is get everyone vaccinated and reach herd immunity. And long term effects of the vaccine? Unless mercury or some other dangerous substance was used to make the vaccine, then the long term effects of the vaccine will be no worse than the long term effects of contracting COVID-19. That's because the vaccine causes the exact same immune response, with the difference being the vaccine eliminates all the other detrimental effects of contracting the virus.

    That's how all vaccines work. They promote the immune response while removing all the other, detrimental effects of getting the disease. Traditional vaccines use attenuated viruses. The new, mRNA vaccines eliminates using actual viruses and just includes the mRNA strand that induces the immune response. mRNA vaccines are likely stronger and safer than traditional vaccines.

    So we have a choice. Reach herd immunity and hope we do so before there is a variant that either effects children like it does adults, or worse, a variant that is vaccine resistant. Or, we can all get vaccinated and hope herd immunity puts the virus behind us. To me, the benefits of all getting vaccinated so far outweigh any risks, we shouldn't even be having this debate.
     
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  19. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    There is still so much we don't know about COVID-19. Like why were children mostly spared the worst effects when the virus first hit? We have working theories, like children's sinuses are under-developed, and therefore spared viral load. But then the UK variant came along and started infecting children at similar rates, and still, thankfully, children were spared the worst for the most part. It begs the question, can there be a variant that infects kids and doesn't spare them the worst effects of the virus?

    That answer is unfortunately yes. And hopefully, that variant does not already exist in Brazil. Early indicators suggests it does exist, but more study is needed to make sure. So what can we do to protect ourselves and our kids from current and future variants? Simple. Get vaccinated.

    As these Doctors from Yale succinctly put it, we are in a race between the vaccine and variants.

    "We need to get vaccinated as soon as we can so we can prevent the spread of COVID-19, which will also prevent the emergence of variants. It’s a race between vaccination and variants."

    — Ellen Foxman, MD, PhD, a Yale Medicine pathologist
    For those worried about the long term effects of the vaccine, ask yourself, what's safer short term. The vaccine or contracting the full virus? Now ask yourself, what is most likely safer long term, contracting the virus or getting the vaccine with either an attenuated virus (J&J) or the mRNA of the virus that triggers the immune response? The only way the vaccine will be more dangerous than contracting the actual virus is if the "cocktail" used to deliver the vaccine contains a dangerous element like lead. But since we've stopped that using dangerous chemicals in vaccines a long time ago, that really shouldn't be a worry at all.

    Anyone who is telling you to follow the science and is not suggesting everyone eligible should get vaccinated is either ill-informed, or is lying. I really can't state it any other way. If we want to truly beat COVID, we need to reach herd immunity. And the only way we do that and be sure is through everyone getting vaccinated.
     
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  20. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Really @gator95, giving me a come on man for a post with a direct quote from a Yale Doctor? What are your credentials? Where have you been published? And what makes you an expert?
     
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