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Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorNorth, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Just ask Tiger Woods about that.
     
  2. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    As I tell me eldest, who is 15 and has her permit, in suburban Phoenix, where she'll be doing 99% of her driving until college, the road are wide, visibility is usually miles, sun is shining, and wind is rarely blowing above 10 mph. The two main causes of accidents are driver impairment and driver recklessness like speeding or improper lane change. So don't drive impaired, and drive defensively, and you significantly cut down on being the cause of an accident that can get you, or someone else hurt. It's simple logic, and I understand it can get lost on some, especially teenagers.

    When it comes to COVID-19, the simple logic is if you are eligible for the vaccine, get it. The risks of the vaccine are minimal as compared to the disease itself. Especially the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, although the risk of the J&J blood clot issue is smaller. Less than developing a COVID psychosis, which according to a Lancet Study, hits about .4% of COVID survivors.

    And again, if we reach herd immunity, the chances of anyone contracting the disease becomes infinitesimal. That's how herd immunity works. Enough people who can't contract the disease because they are vaccinated and the RO drops to close to zero because there simply aren't enough vectors (people) for the virus to infect. It's simple logic.
     
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  3. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    "Rarely more than 5 miles over".
    So sometimes you speed faster than the other times you speed? But on those rare times you put others at risk I assume.

    Cool. I rarely feel the need to proceed cautiously with a vaccine.
     
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  4. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    yea, well he'll need to show me a receipt from a recent stay at a holiday inn express to be considered credible ;)
     
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  5. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    If I'm on a freeway and speed limit is 65, but everyone is going 75, I'd be a bigger threat going the limit. Going with the flow of the herd is safer.

    And you are free to proceed cautiously with the vaccine. But all evidence to date shows the vaccine much safer than the disease. And if we reach herd immunity, it is even safer for all.
     
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  6. jeffbrig

    jeffbrig GC Hall of Fame

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    All the time.... You see the car in my profile pic, right? :ninja2:
    I still got vaccinated at the earliest opportunity. I have a great deal of direct control over whether I get into an accident situation. Not so much with an invisible virus that anyone I come in contact with could expose me to.
     
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  7. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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  8. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    It is my understanding that full approval will allow employers, notably the US Military, to make the vaccine mandatory as a condition of employment
     
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  9. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    This reads like the terribly flawed arguments early in the pandemic . . . We can't stop the virus, let it run its course. Wearing a mask won't stop the virus because (excuse, excuse, excuse). Yes, people will die, but they had existing conditions anyway.

    In addition to prevention of viral spread (the greatest threat to humanity since . . . ?), the vaccine makes severe illness much less likely for those breakthrough cases.
     
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  10. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Am I misinterpreting this, or are you suggesting that the people opting for the vaccine are the ones who are scared?
     
  11. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    C'mon Davis...I have never "sounded like" those folks. I have never been one of those folks and any attempt to label me as one is unfair.

    The FACT is that there is an incredibly small chance that a two second hug will transfer Covid to a fully vaxed person.

    It isn't even close to the same thing as letting it run free.

    Ad a mask and it is almost zero.

    But HE was the one citing breakthrough cases.

    Breakthrough cases will exist even with 100% of the people vaxed.
     
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  12. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Not at all! I was responding to a specific point. I encouraged my own parents to get theirs. I am a libby compared to them. They were hesitant.

    I have been very consistent. I have supported pretty much every protocol, both verbally and through my actions.

    Yet that isnt enough. Some here want to demonize me for showing some hesitation about what I put in my body.

    Well here's the thing. I ALWAYS am hesitant about what goes in my body. My wife and I read every label. We wont eat many things that others will.

    The fact is, if you are vaxed and I wear my mask....you are safe. Period. End of story.

    You will NEVER be 100% safe...but you are pretty darn close.
     
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  13. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    I didn't label you.
     
  14. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Huh? It was a pretty straight-forward question. Were you suggesting that people getting the vax are scared?
     
  15. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t understand why so many people refuse to vaccinate and follow mask and social distance rules.

    Joe keeps telling people to do all of them.
     
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  16. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Not in the least. I literally said the numbers and data have me reconsidering my own hesitancy.

    I 100% support anyone getting it for reasons they seem important.

    Mine is not the side painting and labeling people. Meanwhile some in this forum have called me selfish, and all but accused me of being willing to kill.

    But no, I dont consider the people getting the vaccine to be scared at all.
     
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  17. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Cases will never be 0. But a breakthrough case can only happen if the vaccinated person comes into contact with a person infected with COVID. Reach herd immunity, and the chances of a vaccinated person running into an infected person becomes close to 0. It's the definition of herd immunity. From Oxford's definition of herd immunity:

    1. resistance to the spread of an infectious disease within a population that is based on pre-existing immunity of a high proportion of individuals as a result of previous infection or vaccination. "the level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease but ranges from 83 to 94 percent"
    Given the fact that natural immunity to COVID wanes, and it may be impossible to know all who had it due to some cases being minor, the only assured way to reach herd immunity is through tracked vaccinations.

    To put it another way, risks before reaching herd immunity > risks after reaching herd immunity. And given the fact COVID has already killed millions world wide, shouldn't we all want the risks to be as low as possible?
     
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  18. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    At this point, you are just repeating yourself. I respect your right to raise your kids as you see fit. Mine will hug their vaccinated grandparents just as they did prior to the vaccination at the insistence of said grandparents. They will however now do it with virtually zero risk.

    I am thankful that my dad who has a respiratory disease (that has improved almost fully thankfully) had the option of getting this vax to protect him long term.

    I pose virtually no risk to him at all at this point even without me getting the shot yet.
     
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  19. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    It's not just about personal risk. It's about risk to society as a whole. The longer it takes to reach herd immunity, the longer the virus remains in circulation, and the more people will get sick and die. Statistically, it won't be because your kids hugged their grandparents. But it might be someone else's grandparents who got COVID from their grandkids.

    As a society, we can lower this risk to close to zero with herd immunity. Herd immunity blocks the number of people who can get sick and carry the disease to a level so low that the chances of a person unvaccinated or susceptible to a breakthrough case is so low, is almost 0. Why wouldn't we want to reach this level?

    Then there are variants to worry about. Herd immunity also cuts down on the chance there will be a variant that beats the vaccine. The more people who get COVID, the more chances the virus can mutate into a vaccine resistant variant.

    The reasons to strive for herd immunity are simple.
    1. Protect the entire population from contracting a virus that's already killed millions around the globe, not to mention the thousands with long haul symptoms
    2. Significantly reduce the chance of the virus from mutating into a vaccine resistant strain by reducing the number of carriers

    What are the reasons again not to get vaccinated?
     
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  20. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Still saying the same thing. Every driver puts someone at risk.

    Every pilot puts someone at risk.

    My reasons have been stated numerous times.

    Stop trying to educate the educated. We understand how all of the risks work.

    I do not believe I am putting a vaccinated public at risk as I continue to practice masking and distancing. The data shows almost zero chance.

    I am not sure what you and I have to gain by continuing it. I respect your choice. I am happy you have chosen as you have. I really am.

    Just give everyone time to reach the same decision.
     
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