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Conservatives and the False Romance of Russia

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatoraccountant, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m glad to see that I get far enough into your head for you to go and find threads like that.

    Of course, you’re correct. I should have quantified my statement; Seminoles and Leftists have earned the right to be considered crowds.
     
  2. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    Ah. Got it. Your thoughtful post and “sincere hope” on problems of grouping people is really fluid guidance.

    Maybe don’t lecture people and call someone out and then within a short period do the same thing.
     
  3. Trickster

    Trickster Premium Member

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    I don't see it as a bad argument. You do, based upon an incomplete reading and understanding of it, so there's nothing further to discuss on the subject.
     
  4. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    SIAP...

    I believe the correct narrative is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." And that goes in all directions.

    BTW, where does it say anyone in the US embraces Russia or Putin? Reading WAY too much into things.
     
  5. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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  6. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Michelle Goldberg with a good summary


    Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans are often incredulous seeing the party of Ronald Reagan allied with Vladimir Putin’s Russia, but the truth is, there’s no reason they should be in conflict. The enmity between America and Russia was ideological. First it was liberal democracy versus communism. Then it was liberal democracy versus authoritarian kleptocracy.

    But Trump’s political movement is pro-authoritarian and pro-oligarch. It has no interest in preserving pluralism, free and fair elections or any version of the rule of law that applies to the powerful as well as the powerless. It’s contemptuous of the notion of America as a lofty idea rather than a blood-and-soil nation. Russia, which has long wanted to prove that liberal democracy is a hypocritical sham, is the natural friend of the Trumpist Republican Party, just as it’s an ally and benefactor of the far right Rassemblement National in France and the Lega Nord in Italy.
     
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  7. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    Certainly with Trump, it seems to be simply about the power and infallibility of the executive branch.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Trump sides with Putin's word over U.S. intelligence and law enforcement. Literally stood on the podium in Helsinki and did this. I'd call that embracing Russia. I know with Trump's corruption crime spree, even stuff like that gets lost in the shuffle.

    It is interesting though. I've read stories of some far right militants out of the U.S. actually going to fight in the Ukraine. Literally going there looking for a war, which seems insane to me. I wonder which side they are fighting on? Maybe they don't even know. Seems like it should be obvious that defending freedom means fighting for the Ukranian side, but with Trump's actions seeming to undermine Ukraine (or at best take a flippant attitude) it makes you wonder. If you are going 5000 miles to fight in a war that shouldn't even involve you directly, I hope they are not as pliable about "which side they are on" as Donald Trump. The ones that die will have truly wasted their lives for nothing.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. tarponbro

    tarponbro GC Hall of Fame

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    Attacking non conformers is a reality nowadays, But it doesn't occur with only the right or the left. It's occurring on both sides, for sure.. The ideology of inclusion exists on both sides too...
     
  10. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Wow, even odder is that the Republicans have gone from the party of national defense and less debt to what they are now. They have forfeited their rights to the name "GOP"...nothing grand or old about the current Trump beholden version of the party.
     
  11. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    You will never get an argument from me about republicans not stopping deficit spending. As for national defense, they are still the party supporting that.

    Under Obama, spending was cut so deep, that we could not have fought two small-mid conflicts in different theaters successfully.
     
  12. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    Have they ever really been the party of less debt? They claimed to be, but when have they really done it?
     
  13. danmann65

    danmann65 GC Hall of Fame

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    This is nonsense. Russia is a third world country with nuclear weapons. Other than that they would be a footnote. The Republicans overstated their power in the past and the dems do it now. It wasnt right then. It isn't right now.
     
  14. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    It was the budget sequester, which was bi-partisan, and at least imposed some control on spending for the military. Honestly, our military spending has been out of control for a long time. Not really sure Trump's "ramp up" in military spending is rational here either, that's part of what has blown a hole in the deficit (that and the tax cuts). It's one thing to end the sequester - maybe an argument could be made with an improving economy you can start back with normal spending growth, it's another thing entirely to do a major ramp up in military spending which likely just goes into a black hole of military contracts and waste.
     
  15. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    So is North Korea. So is Iran. So was Iraq, and W got enough people convinced they were an existential threat to launch a pre-emptive invasion.

    Russia is surely the most dangerous of these adversaries, if for nothing else than due to their proximity to European democracies. But of course they are also a primary adversary on the cyber warfare front, on the political corruption/organized crime front, and that's before we get to their still serious arsenal of nukes. I think most considered the cold war over in the 80's, but it seems Putin never did. Putin has not surrendered the cold war, that's fairly apparent based on his gamesmanship over the last 20+ years. Guy might be delusional, or maybe he's just a crook doing it to stay in power, but either way he's an evil that the world needs to be rid of.
     
  16. ValdostaGatorFan

    ValdostaGatorFan GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. danmann65

    danmann65 GC Hall of Fame

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    And in another 10 or 15 years he will die and we will be rid of him. I agree that Iran and North Korea are silly to spend time thinking of them as existential threats.

    Iraq was a special circumstance someone damaging us in the wtc attacks shook the country. Sadam lied for strange reasons to make himself seem like someone who wanted to be a threat. We misunderstood that his boasting was for domestic consumption but he did appear to be someone who was trying to become someone who could do real damage to us.
     
  18. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    You're a conservative who is complaining about a President cutting spending? Oh right, it's the military. I should have known that is the one bloated budget that y'all can't fathom cutting.
     
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  19. studegator

    studegator All American

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  20. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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