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Charter school success

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by studegator, Jun 15, 2024.

  1. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    I don’t understand why Unions would try to have schools like this closed down. Seems they have great success actually educating the students.

     
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  2. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    I read Stossel's article instead, and I don't see anything about anybody closing the schools down:
    This New York Charter School Is Helping Low-Income Students. But the City Is Holding It Back.

    What I see instead are complaints that New York won't raise its cap. But what does that actually mean? The answer is giving more taxpayer money to the charter schools. I'd be all for criticizing in NYC if it was restricting students from attending who wanted to pay their own way. But I have zero issue with the government not paying for even more kids to attend schools run by a private business.
     
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  3. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    I’m for sending our children to whatever entity is successfully educating them. This charter school is doing it at a high level and it’s not even close. Instead of pissing tax payer money down the drain, we should be trying to replicate this schools methods to achieve that success. Tax money well spent, Ithink.
     
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  4. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    The narrator claims that proponents of public schools don't want competition, but that's untrue. They want fairness and too often charter schools do not operate under the same set of rules.

    The Success Academy appears to do very well, as measured by student test scores. While the report included the fact that teacher attrition is an issue (saying "so what?"), it didn't mention the extent of student attrition, which is reportedly an issue. Other issues include millionaire CEO buying property and renting it to charters and using nefarious tactics to obtain disability resources for students who do not need them.

    Eva Moskowitz May Expand “Success Academy” to Florida

    Here's more. Don't believe everything you see in a 7min video.

    Why Don’t Success Academy High School Students Take Any Advanced Regents Exams?

    Success Academy is a charter network with about 40 schools in the New York City area. They are known for their high standardized 3-8 test scores. Though it has been proved that their test scores are somewhat inflated by their practices of shedding their low performing students over the year and also by, at some schools, focusing exclusively on test prep in the months leading up to the tests, they still have these test scores to show their funders and the various charter school cheerleaders.

    Success Academy has spent eighteen years carefully cultivating their image. They want families to think that they have the highest expectations and that families should trust them to educate their children because those higher expectations will lead to those students learning the most. And we all know about their 3-8 state tests in Math and ELA. But it is pretty ‘odd’ that their students don’t take the more difficult Regents. The most likely reason for this is that Success Academy only wants information public that makes them look good and avoids any action that could reveal public data that reveals that they do not live up to their reputation. So I believe that they don’t allow their students to take the Regents because they believe that the scores on those Regents won’t be as impressive as their 3-8 state test scores compared to other schools. If I am right then this is an example of Success Academy choosing to preserve their inflated reputation over giving their students the opportunity to challenge themselves on these competitive exams.

    This is important because Success Academy is held up as a model network that gets so much media attention every time ‘100%’ of their seniors are accepted to college and every time state test score results come out. It is kind of like the Lance Armstrong of charter schools. And when it was revealed that Lance Armstrong was actually not as good as he pretended to be, it was a big deal for sports writers to write about. But a thing like Success Academy’s lack of Regents scores is not something that any inquisitive professional writer about education in New York thinks to investigate. Perhaps there is a good reason that Success Academy does not have their high school students take the advanced Regents. We won’t learn that reason if nobody asks about it.
     
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  5. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Smoke and mirrors. Among a number of other issues, their graduation rate sucks.

    Success Academy Games U.S. News & World Report Best High School Ranking


    When you go to the top schools list, they feature three statistics on the main view: Graduation rate, college readiness, and enrollment. Enrollment isn’t part of the ranking calculation but Graduation Rate, which they define as the number of students who enter 9th grade and graduate 4 years later, is 10% of the ranking.

    For all the schools in the top 80 in New York state, the second lowest graduation rate was 92%. The first lowest was Success Academy with a 75% graduation rate.


     
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  6. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    What's interesting to me is you have proponents of charter schools make these grand claims, but in the same breath, they object when people ask that we hold charter schools to the same standards of public schools when it comes to testing, transparency, non-discrimination, etc. I don't categorically object to charters. They can fill gaps in a useful way. But I do object to the attempts to drain our public school funding with misleading and disingenuous claims.
     
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  7. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

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    Charter schools should be held tot he same standard as public school as far as testing goes. I don’t understand why a private or charter school would NOT hold themselves to that standard… makes it much easier to brag if you are doing better than the public school.
     
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  8. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    It's been mentioned before, but you could probably do a little more research than simply assuming everything on a youtube video is true.

    Gary Rubinstein's Blog: Former Success Academy Teacher Speaks Out
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2024
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  9. gatorjo

    gatorjo GC Hall of Fame

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    So their students have relatively more academic minded parents, who are more involved in their children's education.

    That's a problem with evaluating charter and private schools: it could reflect a measurement of the students going in, as much as of the education received.
     
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  10. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Some of the Detroit charter schools promoted by Betsy DeVoss, Trump's Secretary of Education. These and other charter schools actually performed worse than Detroit's regular public schools which had a record of substandard performance.
    On the west side, another charter school, Hope Academy, has been serving the community around Grand River and Livernois for 20 years. Its test scores have been among the lowest in the state throughout those two decades; in 2013 the school ranked in the first percentile, the absolute bottom for academic performance. Two years later, its charter was renewed.

    Or if you live downtown, you could try Woodward Academy, a charter that has limped along near the bottom of school achievement since 1998, while its operator has been allowed to expand into other communities.
    A sobering look at what Betsy DeVos did to education in Michigan — and what she might do as secretary of education

    Not saying that all or even most charter schools are inherently bad, those that opened in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina performed significantly better than than Orleans Parrish public schools. They were also subject to regulation and periodic evaluations unlike the unregulated schools in Michigan under DeVos.

    Whitmer, Michigan Democrats have to fix what Betsy DeVos did

    Michigan Gambled on Charter Schools. Its Children Lost. (Published 2017)
     
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  11. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    The reality is, there is no “special sauce” to their teaching methods. If there was, the public schools would be doing it too! The OP suggests the public schools should be “copying” charter schools, but what is there to copy?

    I’ve always thought Charter schools are a fine idea as alternative where the public schools are utterly failing, inner cities and such. If there is any value at all, maybe just having a clean slate and new buildings brings some value. But those Devos run schools noted above show that positive returns are far from assured (in the academic sense) even compared to bottom tier crumbling school districts.

    In the grand scheme? Seems like it’s become more of a grifting and/or ideological op where low paid, unqualified teachers are processed in and out and students are processed as well. They don’t want to be held to the same standard because then the illusion crumbles.
     
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  12. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    To balance this somewhat—
    Harlem Success Academy – Diane Ravitch's blog

    Yes, I do agree that both public and private schools should be held to the same standards, and that most of the time public schools don’t have the option to “kick out” undesirable students as they disrupt classrooms and negatively affect the student population. A private school has better options in that regard.
    Lack of parenting, no discipline and no teaching responsibilities by parents as they then complain about teachers, are a major cause of the public school results we now have. I am not taking teachers out of the equation as many should not be in the profession and have no business teaching. My wife and I have had many discussions about several of the teachers we had whom had no gift or zeal for teaching. A few others were great at their job and those, we learned a lot from.
    My wife works in a job where she is involved in processing new hires, and they hire a lot of people. She is shocked at the lack of basic skills that even a lot of the college graduates lack, skills that we learned in school when we were younger.
    Maybe it is not “fixable” due to the society in which we now have.
     
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  13. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    There is some special sauce- kick out low performers, make parents spend more time on their kids' education, and make teachers do more for lower pay. Some of these can't be done in public schools, and some of these shouldn't be done in public schools.
     
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  14. slocala

    slocala VIP Member

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    ^ bingo. Charter schools are like gerrymandering. You get to pick your constituents.
     
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  15. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

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    Our school system is broken. We have a one size kinda fits all mentality. For decades we told kids they needed college… have to go to college. We structured HS as a way to promote students to college.
    Those that were not college material got left behind with very few educational options. Vocational options were underfunded and looked down upon. Basic work force skills were dropped and defunded in many schools. Many HS students have no desire to be in the classroom and their parents only send them as a free daycare.
    America needs to refocus on vocational work. Welding, plumbing, HVAC, etc.. all provide a good living ( better than McDonalds and no whining about a living wage.)
    Students that just don’t want to go to school.. kick them out. They screw up the opportunities to learn for the other students . Minimum wage workers are always needed.
    The secret sauce
    Teach those that want to learn. Want to succeed.( Whether in a traditional HS or Vocational school). Those that only sow havoc and discord. . let them find another way to succeed . Want to be a great football coach? Have Tebow and Harvin. Same in the classroom.
    That doesn’t mean have only high intelligent students. Have students with desire to learn to improve. Then provide teachers that enjoy seeing their success .Many”bad” teachers feel unsupported by admin, unsuccessful in the classroom because of the disruptions and failures that are truly out of their control. Give them good students and many bad teachers would turn around. If not… they too can find another venue for their occupational success.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2024
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  16. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    Well said. I would suggest, however, that at the most basic level, schools are failing because parents aren’t doing their jobs.
     
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  17. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    My friend we may disagree on several issues, but we certainly agree on our fair share as well. Well said.
     
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  18. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

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    Oh NO DOUBT…
    But we aren’t allowed to blame parents. That’s taboo. It’s everyone else’s fault
     
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  19. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Heh? Taboo according to whom? Usually it's the teachers and not the parents, who get raked over the coals.
     
  20. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

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    Right
    Teachers get the blame when continually parents that are failing their kids. much easier to blame a teacher than to tell a mom or dad that they aren’t doing right by their kid. How often do we see 13 year kids getting arrested at 2 am or find out there is t a parent at home all night most weekdays? In tampa and browsed that was fairly normal. Too many parents feel either inconvenienced by their kid or want to be best buds with their kid. Not enough want to actually parent and help their kids truly succeed.
     
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