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Charlottesville murderer gets life in prison

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by rivergator, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Battle of Liberty Place in New Orleans. Read the original inscription.

    Here is an op-ed from a Ph.D. candidate at the time whose focus was on reconstruction politics, just looking at North Carolina speeches.

    Silent Sam and other Civil War monuments rose on race

    The speech in front of the monument in Tampa:

    For Tampa's Confederate monument, racist history clouds claims of heritage

    Would you like me to continue posting multiple speeches, because I can. It isn't hard. Or can we agree that many of these statues were dedicated with speeches explicitly extolling white supremacy? That was the goal of the statue builders, while the goal of the leadership depicted was the preservation of slavery based on racial supremacy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  2. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    You say you can bring up more speeches and to do that you bring up the NC speech again?

    The article you posted clearly states that there were racist comments made in 13 speeches......out of the probably hundreds of confederate monuments that are scattered across the south each of which had multiple speakers who gave speeches.
     
  3. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    More from the History Channel on how/when we got the Confederate monuments. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments

    Confederate memorials started out as actual memorials (imagine that):


    Most of these monuments did not go up immediately after the war’s end in 1865. During that time, commemorative markers of the Civil War tended to be memorials that mourned soldiers who had died, says Mark Elliott, a history professor at University of North Carolina, Greensboro.

    ...

    In contrast to the earlier memorials that mourned dead soldiers, these monuments tended to glorify leaders of the Confederacy like General Robert E. Lee, former President of the Confederacy Jefferson Davisand General “Thomas Stonewall” Jackson.

    “All of those monuments were there to teach values to people,” Elliott says. “That’s why they put them in the city squares. That’s why they put them in front of state buildings.” Many earlier memories had instead been placed in cemeteries.

    The values these monuments stood for, he says, included a “glorification of the cause of the Civil War.”
    Even the descendants of Confederate Leaders who've had monuments erected know the real truth and have responded accordingly:

    Protesters and city officials have taken down statues in Baltimore and Durham, North Carolina. And many cities are calling on their elected officials to do the same. Two of Stonewall Jackson’s great-great-grandsons penned an open letter to the mayor of Richmond, the former capital of the Confederacy as well as the grandsons’ hometown, regarding Jackson’s statue there.

    “[W]e are writing today to ask for the removal of his statue, as well as the removal of all Confederate statues from Monument Avenue,” they wrote in their letter published on Slate. “They are overt symbols of racism and white supremacy, and the time is long overdue for them to depart from public display.”

    Even Robert E. Lee V, whose understanding of his great-great-grandfather’s legacy is steeped in Lost Cause-ism, made a similar recommendation about statues of him. Speaking to The Washington Post, he said: “if it can avoid any days like this past Saturday in Charlottesville, then take them down today.”
     
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  4. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    When were Confederate Monuments erected?

    Overwhelmingly during the height of KKK expansion in the Jim Crow era, and in reaction to civil rights activism.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Or......around the time when the generation of those alive during the days of the confederacy were dying off. So it makes sense that groups were focused on making sure that their legacy didn't die with them.


    not unusual to see that....remember all the "greatest generation" stuff in the '90s? 50-55 years after WWII....

    the timeline you show here.....50 years or so after the Civil War coincides almost identically.

    Coincidence? I don't think so. Also pre-dates the strong rise of the KK that came in the mid-'20s.

    So please be factually accurate
     
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  6. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Informative read from the Smithsonian, covering the extensive efforts and money spent from groups trying to rewrite Confederate history into something more acceptable.

    The Costs of the Confederacy | History | Smithsonian

    A brief excerpt below. The whole article should be read.

    "To address this explosive issue in a new way, we spent months investigating the history and financing of Confederate monuments and sites. Our findings directly contradict the most common justifications for continuing to preserve and sustain these memorials.

    First, far from simply being markers of historic events and people, as proponents argue, these memorials were created and funded by Jim Crow governments to pay homage to a slave-owning society and to serve as blunt assertions of dominance over African-Americans.

    Second, contrary to the claim that today’s objections to the monuments are merely the product of contemporary political correctness, they were actively opposed at the time, often by African-Americans, as instruments of white power.

    Finally, Confederate monuments aren’t just heirlooms, the artifacts of a bygone era. Instead, American taxpayers are still heavily investing in these tributes today. We have found that, over the past ten years, taxpayers have directed at least $40 million to Confederate monuments—statues, homes, parks, museums, libraries and cemeteries—and to Confederate heritage organizations."
     
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  7. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    As noted in a prior post, memorials after the Civil War, were actually memorials to fallen soldiers, located primarily in cemetaries. Nobody is protesting memorials to fallen soldiers.

    The Confederate Monuments are monuments to the Confederacy and what it represented - the fight to maintain slavery and white supremacy. That is made very clear in numerous dedications as well as the fact these monuments were heavily funded by white racist groups, notably the Daughters of the Confederacy working in concert with the KKK.

    So I will have to turn this back around and ask that you be factually accurate. There is no objective refutation of what these monuments were erected for. In the hay day of the KKK and Jim Crow. And in often violent reaction to civil rights actions.
     
  8. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The Tampa memorial is towards fallen soldiers

    [​IMG]
     
  9. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    In part it is. But it was also dedicated to racism. Specifically.

    For Tampa's Confederate monument, racist history clouds claims of heritage

    In remarks at the monument's dedication — a monument that its modern supporters insist doesn't symbolize the suppression of black Americans — the keynote speaker, state attorney Herbert S. Phillips, had this to say:

    "The South stands ready to welcome all good citizens who seek to make their homes within her borders. But the South detests and despises all, it matters not from whence they came, who, in any manner, encourages social equality with an ignorant and inferior race."

     
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  10. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    So one guy among several others made a speech and that's that? How about just chalk that guys speech as his opinion......also, I think it would be fitting and fair to read all of the other speeches given that day so that we can make a fully informed determination of the spirit of that day and not rely on one sentence from one man.

    because that man is dead, his words have drifted off into oblivion and would be well forgotten if you would stop giving them life.


    just so you know, for the record. I don't like this statue being outside the courthouse. it's rightful place would be in a cemetery
     
  11. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Wasn't just one guy. This was institutional power talking both to the white community and the black community, enforcing white supremacy.

    Against this backdrop, Herbert Phillips, the state's attorney for the 6th Judicial Circuit, delivered his keynote address to dedicate the Confederate monument.

    "The south declares that a president who appoints a negro to an office within her borders engenders sectional bitterness," he said, "encourages lynchings, injures the negro, is an enemy of good government and a traitor to the Anglo-Saxon race."
    That is the blatantly hideous crap being defended when people defend these Confederate Monuments. I saw enough of these attitudes fifty to sixty years following these dedication speeches. People that grew up with the same hateful, ignorant attitudes and didn't hesitate to express them.

    There is no place in the public sphere for this stuff. Put it in a museum.
     
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  12. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Being that you don't live in the south anymore, it should comfort you that people here don't have the same attitudes that they had 40 years ago in the '70s let alone 100 years ago. The south has changed a lot.
     
  13. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    I have moved back. No doubt the south has moved well beyond where it was in the 60s and 70s.

    But that's besides the point. The fact is the Confederacy was created explicitly to fight to maintain slavery, and most Confederate Monuments were erected by racist organizations to promote white supremacy, often while terrorizing black communities.

    If the south really has moved on, it should be ready to move these monuments to museums. Or buy them for private collections for those that are still in love with the idea of the Confederate South and Jim Crow. But they don't belong in the public square as an affront to the victims of slavery, the Confederacy and Jim Crow, as well as the rest of the citizens who believe in treating people with respect.
     
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  14. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    No, you need to read the article closer. It is about speeches across North Carolina. I brought up speeches in other states. Apparently, you want more listed, so here you go:

    Let's move from UNC to a statue at VCU:

    Like UNC, VCU has its own Confederate memorial dedicated with explicitly white supremacist speech - Virginia Mercury

    From South Carolina:



    So now I have provided 18 different instances. Would you like some more?
     
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  15. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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    Guess you missed my post about Selma. I do find it odd that you are so attached to Confederate memorials, isn’t your family from New York?
     
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  16. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    He got a second life sentence plus 419 years on state charges today.

    James Alex Fields Jr., driver in deadly Charlottesville car attack, gets second life sentence

    The driver who plowed his car into a group of counterprotesters at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017, killing one and injuring dozens, was given a second life sentence Monday on state charges.

    A judge already sentenced Fields to life June 28 after he pleaded guilty to federal charges.

    James Alex Fields Jr. was given the additional sentence of life plus 419 years on Monday by Judge Richard Moore after he was convicted by a Virginia jury in December, NBC Washington reported. The sentence was recommended by the jury, but state law allowed the judge to go lower than their recommendation if he saw fit.
     
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  17. RealGatorFan

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    You just made that up.

    Obama: "Them white folks think they are all that but come Judgement Day, we's taking it back".

    Yeah I just made that up too, but it's got quotes around it so Obama must have said it.
     
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  18. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo GC Hall of Fame

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    Obviously. But a very interesting characterization.
     
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  19. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    As coco noted, your Obama impersonation is "interesting".

    It's as if you never actually listened to him speak.

    Yet still conjured up an image.
     
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  20. orangeblue_coop

    orangeblue_coop GC Legend

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    Yup, you told on yourself with this one
     
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