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Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by twodaparty, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. steveGator52

    steveGator52 All American

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    It’s a common refrain here about the DBs having their backs to the ball and the receiver catching the ball. If that is the technique that is being taught, then this will remain a problem in the future.

    Elam turned around and was looking for the ball, and he picked the ball off. Marco has his back to the qb on the TD, and it’s hard to make a play on the ball if you can’t see it. Otherwise, that duck should have been a pick, and not a TD.
     
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  2. freedomgator

    freedomgator GC Legend

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    Totally different plays. The Marco TD was a scramble drill so unless Marco's got eyes in the back of his helmet he's going to have to look at the WR to see where he's going. Nothing wrong with the coverage, the QB and WR just both managed to make a play in a very low percentage situation. On the Elam pick the QB got confused (By Grantham's scheme? Can't be, people here say he sucks...) and threw a bad ball to a receiver with which Elam was in phase. To suggest that Marco should've done what Elam did is ignorant of reality.
     
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  3. steveGator52

    steveGator52 All American

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    So Marco couldn’t put one hand on the receiver and turn back to the qb, like almost every other defensive back in the country does? Use the end line as another defender? The qb threw a prayer duck, and Marco never located the ball. If that is such a difficult play to defend, then why would it be considered a lucky play?

    Elam still turned around to locate the ball. He didn’t keep his back to the qb, like has happened before for different players. On Marco’s pass breakup/almost int, he didn’t turn around either on an under thrown ball.

    Or does this go back to playing zone, and the fact this secondary has an issue with playing zone. The last td by UVa was a crap fest. They couldn’t decide if they were playing zone or man. That is scheme and coaching.
     
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  4. freedomgator

    freedomgator GC Legend

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    So almost every defensive back in the country defends scramble drill plays by simply putting their hand on the receiver and then somehow running with them in coverage without looking at them? This is an insane statement.

    If you can't see how it's a hell of a play for the QB to fit the ball into a tiny window while evading the defensive pursuit and the WR to make the catch, get a foot down, and maintain possession all the way to the ground all while a defender is draped on him then I can't help you.

    Yes, on a play that was entirely different than the one to which you compared it.

    This is true, but turning around would've actually been worse in that case because he was far behind and was in chase mode. ESPN didn't show why that was the case, unclear if he slipped or what.

    There's a difference between the scheme being bad and the players executing the scheme incorrectly. In this case it appears that the scheme was fine, but at least one freshman CB did not execute properly. Could be a coaching issue, but more likely it's a freshman making a mistake.
     
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  5. tommyvee

    tommyvee GC Hall of Fame

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    Marco has been inconsistent and I do agree somewhat to it being a strength issue. Y’all gotta remember, he was rehabbing the entire year last year. Give him a full year with Savage and see the difference. It wouldn’t surprise me if he has a CGJ like year next year if he comes back.
     
  6. DBCooper

    DBCooper GC Hall of Fame

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    Great players are going to make a great play in big moments - offense or defense. The great CB’s need short memories. With a year’s strength work Marco Wilson will be a huge help for the young CB/Star room - on and off the field. Hope he returns.
     
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  7. wingtee

    wingtee GC Hall of Fame

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    It’s called the Trail technique. When a QB can avoid the rush and buy time , defensive backs use this technique because of the breakdowns of routes . Hopefully they are a baller and will look up when the WR looks up
     
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  8. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    So is the issue with Coach Gray? I'm thinking not. A good QB has the game of his career against a talented but mostly inexperienced secondary. But we won. I'm guessing a few people here lost money because the Gators didn't cover the spread.
     
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  9. steveGator52

    steveGator52 All American

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    No. Didn’t lose money. Just watched year 2 of inconsistent secondary play keep us from winning the SEC East, where the good qbs we play take advantage of the breakdowns/matchups that inevitably occur in the secondary. Even against the cupcakes, those breakdowns still occurs, but the qb couldn’t take advantage of them. But the good teams took full advantage of those issues. Fromm sucked most of the year, but we made him look much better than anyone else did.

    We will see if it improves next year. But until it improves, we will be on the outside looking in, unless we have an offense like LSU did this year that could outscore any team they played.
     
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  10. steveGator52

    steveGator52 All American

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    No, they bump the receiver to slow his momentum, and then put a hand(s) on him to keep track of where he is going, while looking back at the qb to locate the ball. On the first two UVA tds, the UF defender had his back to the qb either playing catch-up (21) or hugging the receiver and never looking back for the ball (Marco). The UVA qb threw a prayer off his back foot. Head around, and it’s a breakup at worst (or maybe still a td, since jump balls haven’t went our way very often.).

    It seems our dbs are always in the trail position, with their back to the qb, and almost never turn to locate the ball. Could it be lack of talent? That was the reasoning last year due to injuries, but even with the cb talent we had returning, the same poor secondary play has continued. If it continues next year, should it be considered a trend, or just that more time is required to get better athletes in the secondary?

    You can’t tell me UVA has better talent in the secondary than we do. Yet their scheme allowed them to hang with us and make it a closer game than anyone thought it would be. I am not sold on the defensive coaching being good enough to get us to the playoffs.
     
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  11. thale410

    thale410 GC Hall of Fame

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    No coverage scheme was going to look great with the talent we put on the field at DB this year. If Elam steps up next season and they find an above average safety, coverage will look a bit better. Ultimately it's about getting better guys back there, and unfortunately they will probably need two true freshman to play well above their experience level to see much improvement in 2020.
     
  12. wingtee

    wingtee GC Hall of Fame

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    If we got the QB down there would have been no pass. The players are coming .
     
  13. twodaparty

    twodaparty GC Hall of Fame

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    Coach should put him in touch with CGJ for advice on coming back and what it can do for his status.
     
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  14. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus GC Legend

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    If he does that and focuses on tackling with attitude, he should have a great year.
     
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  15. steveGator52

    steveGator52 All American

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    Disagree.

    We have talent. Not the best talent, but better talent than 80%-90% of FBS teams. Vanderbilt doesn’t have our talent, yet was stouter in the secondary. The difference is coaching and scheme. So far, secondary play under Grantham has been lackluster. Good qbs have had a field day.

    If you are going to play soft zone, you need players with closing speed and instincts. We don’t seem to have that, yet still mostly play soft zone. It’s pitch and catch for the good receivers and qbs. Versus bump and run or tight man, which allows you to disrupt the timing and position of the receiver, making it more difficult on the offense. If you are trying to stop a Qb from scrambling, then spy him. You don’t have to make the entire secondary play zone.

    If your scheme requires top shelf talent to succeed, then is it really a great scheme? That worked for Bama until 3-4 years ago. But once other teams got similar talent, they haven’t been as dominant, have they? Clemson beat them once with a better scheme, and beat them a second time with the better scheme and similar talent. LSU beat them this year with a better scheme and better offensive talent.
     
  16. thale410

    thale410 GC Hall of Fame

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    And that's the exact results you got this year, the pass D better than 80% of our opponents' passing games. The three best QBs on our schedule - Burrow, Fromm, Perkins - had some success exploiting the DB talent, the rest did not.

    Take out those 3 games and the talent/scheme gave up less than 180 yds/game and 5 TD passes for the entire year - which would be an obscenely good pass defense, so it must be schematically sound.

    Add a better corner, a better safety, and one pass rushing DT and the pass D looks very different against UGA, LSU, and UVA.

    All schemes depend on the talent level. There really isn't a magic way to scheme around a really good CFB QB using relatively inferior talent. Every defensive system can be exploited, but those opportunities narrow significantly as the defensive talent on the field improves.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  17. freedomgator

    freedomgator GC Legend

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    Nonono u so silly! Zone bad, man good! Grantham dumb! Charlie Strong smart, don't bring up 2007 dumdum! Bump and run unbeatable! Just spy, lol! Moar blitz!
     
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  18. wingtee

    wingtee GC Hall of Fame

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    U silly weird dude. U no brain ,no smart at all
     
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  19. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

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    Both scores were technique issues jay can be improved with practice. However, I agree with comments above regarding coverage this year. LSU, UGA and Virginia passed at will to open seams in our coverage. I hope the coaching staff watches tape and cleans that up, as our Passing D was exposed this year. Combination of LB being too slow in pass coverage, STAR player being ineffective in comparison to Chauncey, safeties being too slow to get to WR to break up passes, and CBs being relatively young. Wilson did not have that much college game experience prior to his injuries.