Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ATLGATORFAN, Apr 4, 2020.
I was referring to his hypothetical sub question. The AC was contaminated and the virus spreading rapidly and request to evac and disinfect had been denied otherwise the captain would not have taken the steps he did
how can anyone that claims to support our military can support this POTUS is beyond reason
It’s Hardly Shocking the Navy Fired a Commander for Warning of Coronavirus Threat. It’s Part of a Pattern.
Navy experts believe that the cumulative effects of the service’s decisions over the past several years to punish those who speak out will result in silencing sailors with legitimate concerns about their health and safety.
“This may have the effect of chilling the responses of other commanding officers because it will be perceived, fairly or not, as a shoot the messenger scenario,” said James Stavridis, a retired admiral and former head of the United States Naval Institute, who called for an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the dismissal.
The Navy’s top officer, Adm. Mike Gilday, initially praised Crozier’s attempt to warn his superiors. But the next day, Thursday, Modly, the Navy’s civilian boss, reversed course, telling reporters that he fired Crozier because he lost confidence in the officer for not using a secure email network to properly route his complaint.
As part of our 2019 investigation into the incidents in the Navy’s 7th Fleet, its largest overseas presence, ProPublica found repeated instances of frontline commanders warning superiors of risks the fleet was facing — a lack of training, exhausted crews, deteriorating ships and equipment. Those warnings, all sent through the normal chain of command, were met with indifference.
Adm. Joseph Aucoin, the head of the 7th Fleet, was fired. Vice Adm. Thomas Rowden, who oversaw training, was forced from his job. Cmdr. Bryce Benson, captain of the Fitzgerald, was recommended for court-martial.
But ProPublica reported that all three men had repeatedly tried to warn higher-ups of dangerous safety issues in the vaunted fleet, based at Yokosuka, Japan. They argued to their superiors that the Navy was running ships in the 7th Fleet too hard, too fast. Their warnings were dismissed.
Wrong. He sent his letter to people in the a Pentagon. He “divulged” nothing. It’s all internal.
I don’t know about President but he’s sufficiently experienced to be the Secretary of the Navy.
You will get crickets from those who agreed with the dismissal.
Got it. I wasn't a carrier guy (although I did spend time on one), but I was an Nuc and an Aviator.
Without doing a bunch of research (that may be fruitless anyway), I would probably put this carrier in the "off-line" status, especially if it was supposed to be covering a certain area of the world right now. Carriers are made to park an airfield off someones coast to actively control the airspace or for power projection, this is doing neither.
How fast it becomes part of that equation, minus all the variables of the virus depend on:
-Getting it fully manned again. This includes the air wing, not just the ship's crew.
-Reactor up and running or not? You would normally shut down in port, not sure if they did or if Guam even can support a shutdown (you have to bring on shore electrical power)
-Status of supplies (fuel, food....).
-Getting to it's area of operation. Guam is in the middle of nowhere, not really full-filling a mission in transit.
Probably some other variables that a shoe (surface warfare guy) would know, those are just off the top of my head and again, I am no expert.
Carriers usually travel with a battle group (destroyers, frigates, attack sub), wonder what those guys are doing now.
Isn't the pipeline that a Navy Officer has to go through to get a carrier command after 0-5 command about five years or more?
Story I read said staffed to keep reactor online, clean ship, and provide security.
Not positive but that sounds about right (I was prior E and retired as an 0-4).
Usually they go from XO of Carrier to CO of a support ship. Throw in a shore tour and Nuc School (if you didn't go as part of your SWO duties) and 5 years or so should be correct. One thing I have seen as my friends take 0-6 commands is that timeline may change as the person you are trying to relieve has orders held up because they are going into somewhat political billets.
I wonder if Guam couldn't support the shutdown. Keeping the reactors online requires a significantly larger crew than a shutdown and I would think that would slow the covid response. It may have been done to minimize the time to turn around the ship for deployment but the start-up time is a lot shorter than the other factors to to get underway.
I am sure they thought all this thru, just thinking out loud.
I'm sorry but this is not a Trump issue. This is a Navy issue that stretches back into the Obama Admin and possible even the Bush Admin. The two biggest black eyes for the Navy had until this were the running aground of the USS Antietam and the collision of the USS Fitzgerald with a freighter. Then there was the McCain colliding with oil tanker. All three were due to the training and readiness issues cited in the ProPublica article.
In the summer of '17, I was working with a retired Navy 0-6 who had retired after having 0-6 command in the Navy. I remember talking about the Antietam and Fitzgerald incidents with him. He said that the word in his circles were that both ships had been ordered to deploy despite not being green across the board in terms of readiness and training. The Antietam happened in January of '17, the Fitzgerald in June of '17, and the McCain in August of '17. One cannot blame Trump for this issue unless they are willing to blame Obama as well. This has been a continuing issue for the Navy. The Marine Corps has had some similar issues in other areas.
I'm waiting for the full story to come out on this situation. I always lean towards supporting the person on the ground but I've seen some officers work most of their adult life to get an 0-5 or 0-6 command or even make FOGO and then do some incredibly stupid things.
For all of us civilians, here are the what the numbers mean:
Pay Grade Insignia Rank Abbreviation Classification 2020 Pay Range
E-1 No Insignia Seaman Recruit SR Junior Enlisted $1,733 per month
E-2 Seaman Apprentice SA Junior Enlisted $1,943 per month
E-3 Seaman SN Junior Enlisted $24,512 - $27,634 per year
E-4 Petty Officer Third Class PO3 Noncommissioned Officer $27,151 - $32,958 per year
E-5 Petty Officer Second Class PO2 Noncommissioned Officer $29,610 - $42,023 per year
E-6 Petty Officer First Class PO1 Noncommissioned Officer $32,324 - $50,065 per year
E-7 Chief Petty Officer CPO Senior Noncommissioned Officer $37,372 - $67,169 per year
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer SCPO Senior Noncommissioned Officer $53,762 - $76,676 per year
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer MCPO Senior Noncommissioned Officer $65,675 - $101,970 per year
E-9 Command Master Chief Petty Officer CMDCM Senior Enlisted Advisor $65,675 - $101,970 per year
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer Of The Navy MCPON Senior Enlisted Advisor $65,675 - $101,970 per year
W-2 Chief Warrant Officer 2 CW2 Warrant Officer $43,927 - $73,318 per year
W-3 Chief Warrant Officer 3 CW3 Warrant Officer $49,644 - $87,080 per year
W-4 Chief Warrant Officer 4 CW4 Warrant Officer $54,360 - $101,254 per year
W-5 Chief Warrant Officer 5 CW5 Warrant Officer $96,656 - $126,482 per year
O-1 Ensign ENS Junior Officer $39,445 - $49,637 per year
O-2 Lieutenant Junior Grade LTJG Junior Officer $45,450 - $62,896 per year
O-3 Lieutenant LT Junior Officer $52,600 - $85,576 per year
O-4 Lieutenant Commander LCDR Junior Officer $59,825 - $99,889 per year
O-5 Commander CDR Senior Officer $69,336 - $117,799 per year
O-6 Captain CAPT Senior Officer $83,174 - $147,244 per year
O-7 Rear Admiral Lower Half RDML Flag Officer $109,681 - $163,872 per year
O-8 Rear Admiral RADM Flag Officer $131,994 - $190,289 per year
O-9 Vice Admiral VADM Flag Officer $186,552 - $197,302 per year
O-10 Admiral ADM Flag Officer $16,442 per month
O-11 Fleet Admiral FADM Flag Officer n/a
@OklahomaGator - realize that those pay rates do not include Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) which is roughly a third of a military members compensation.
From what I understand, he notified his superiors once and didn't like the answer or outcome and then immediately leaked it out to 30 civilian entities. There is a reason why we limit information to the public. The public just doesn't have the experiences or smarts to separate the 2. For one, had a foreign power intercepted that missive, they would have an advantage they could exploit. Of course, they were in waters not deemed dangerous, but there are ways to attack an air craft carrier from afar (cyber attacks for one). It's why we banned reporters on the front lines in WWII (the allies had their own reporters). It's why Schwarzkopf used CNN against Iraq by feeding them misinformation because he knew had he given them real info, they would blab it. Hussein actually watched CNN to get all of his info on us (his own words).
The moment you draw in the civilian population into military affairs is when you go ahead and dismantle your military because you will never win another war. We have better things to do with our money at that point. We would all be speaking German or most likely not even be here today had civilians had access like they do today.
I was really just posting that to get the descriptions for like O-5, O-6 etc...but understand what you are saying.
There’s no indication he sent the letter to civilians. Every report says he copied a bunch of people at the Pentagon and even Modly said he didn’t have any knowledge of Crozier leaking the letter. Further, the highest ranking commissioned officer in the Navy praised Crozier after this came out. Only Trump’s political creature, and civilian, Acting Secretary Modly, and Trump, have criticized Captain Crozier. I wonder why that is?
BAH still non taxable? That was sweet.
Also doesn’t include sea pay, flight pay, sub pay.......
I’m not an expert but, I would think we’ve used aircraft carrier launched planes in various roles in Afghanistan