Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Can this be America?? The police are broken.

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by citygator, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    I think that's all most of us are looking for: accountability. There was none with this police department as it pertains to this particular issue. I hope they get hammered, including the ones who had knowledge of the event or the ability to step in and did nothing. We'll never get perfection, but if we can hold people accountable for their misdeeds (just as much as we want to celebrate them for their duty), then we have a reason to expect that the behavior will be discouraged and lead to fewer incidences of wrong-doing.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

    3,981
    956
    423
    Sep 20, 2014
    North Carolina
    From a James Lee Burke novel:
    "Policemen often have many personal problems. TV films go to great lengths to depict cops’ struggles with alcoholism, bad marriages, mistreatment at the hands of liberals, racial minorities, and bumbling administrators. But my experience has been that the real enemy is the temptation to misuse power. The weaponry we possess is awesome—leaded batons, slapjacks, Mace, stun guns, M-16s, scoped sniper rifles, 12-gauge assault shotguns, high-powered pistols and steel-jacketed ammunition that can blow the cylinders out of an automobile’s engine block. But the real rush is in the discretionary power we sometimes exercise over individuals. I’m talking about the kind of people no one likes—the lowlifes, the aberrant, the obscene and ugly—about whom no one will complain if you leave them in lockdown the rest of their lives with a good-humored wink at the Constitution, or if you’re really in earnest, you create a situation where you simply saw loose their fastenings and throw down a toy gun for someone to find when the smoke clears. It happens, with some regularity. "
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

    50,051
    1,814
    2,508
    Apr 3, 2007
    Outer Limits
    Wonder how prevalent the use of roids is nowadays amongst the LE? I read several years back that it was a problem.
     
  4. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 Premium Member

    1,181
    273
    383
    Oct 11, 2011
    So the populace is the "culprit" here because they elected moronic politicians who appointed moronic leaders who hired moronic foot soldiers?

    What's the solution here then? A time machine to get us back to the glory days of Leave it to Beaver? Or do we just grin and bear it because just deserts?

    What a valuable contribution to the thread. Thanks.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  5. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

    3,318
    843
    618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    Well I guess conservatives want to write these off as one offs, then write off mass shootings as one offs then write off Russian campaign collusion as one offs. Everything is a one off except for a crime by an immigrant. Got it. ;)
     
  6. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

    34,825
    2,484
    1,786
    Aug 30, 2014
    He's not completely wrong. Policing reflects what we've permitted or encouraged it to reflect. Thing is, we often make a mistake of allowing nostalgia (as you suggest with Leave it to Beaver) to bias our thinking of the past as better, even idyllic, when in many ways, state violence was much worse. NTM, state violence is intrinsic to the rise of civilization.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Be more involved than just checking a box on election day. People get away with things because there aren't enough people that care to hold them accountable. I cringe at the push to "get out and vote" because there is so much more to our system than simply showing up and bubbling a circle and feeling like you've done your duty. Everyone should take time each week to learn something new about how their local government works, where the money is spent, find an issue to reach out to a local politician about (even if you reach out to the wrong one, learn the correct way to reach out). Could you imagine if our population was as interested in our government as we are about our favorite sports teams? I believe having a local government that is accountable will lead to the production of a better pool of candidates for larger government offices, which in turn leads to a better pool (theoretically) of candidates all the way up to the office of President.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  8. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

    34,825
    2,484
    1,786
    Aug 30, 2014
    I am looking for accountability and for a radical change to policing that makes these types of use of force to gain compliance a much rarer event.
     
  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Extremely Online Premium Member

    I do think the space for reform is pretty limited unless we seriously examine the idea of policing itself and its role as an economic enforcement mechanism in our society.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

    34,825
    2,484
    1,786
    Aug 30, 2014
    Spot on. We need to definitely go after the economic enforcement praxis and the very idea of policing itself. And given how much the federal government provides localities funding for police, one way would be to compel govt to incentivize/demand better forms such as community & problem oriented policing just as they have worse (think war on drugs, militarism).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

    5,119
    734
    648
    May 29, 2007
    Richmond, VA
    You want to find the culprit and I gave it to you. Sorry you don't like the answer. And no, the answer isn't in the past it has to be in the future. But if we don't wake up and realize what is going on we WILL repeat history. There isn't anything sanctimonious about the US, post-WW2.
     
  12. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 Premium Member

    1,181
    273
    383
    Oct 11, 2011
    I didn’t ask who the culprit was. You felt compelled to blame this on the public without being prompted to do so.

    The culprit is the dirty ass cop in the video.

    What about our history are you afraid we will repeat if we don’t “wake up?”
     
  13. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

    5,119
    734
    648
    May 29, 2007
    Richmond, VA
    Yes, if this cop was a bad apple and the force did not see it then this is an isolated incident. But as I see it the thread was "another cop goes postal". And to that I gave it a base condition of why cops are going there. History says when a society gets too prosperous it stops being about the society and begins to be about "me". As a result you get sold a bill of goods over and over until the weight of the poor choices causes it all to collapse.

    Think "barbarians at the gate."
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    7,304
    282
    288
    Apr 9, 2007
    Interesting theory, but I respectfully disagree. If things like this weren't happening before, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. But the poor and minority communities have been complaining about police abuse for decades. The difference today is visibility. Police cameras and bystanders with cell phones capture things on video that before, it was the police's word versus the suspect's word.

    And I'll admit to bias and state that in cases past, without video evidence, I would be inclined to believe the officer over the word of some guy who looks like the victim in the video. Absent of other evidence, who makes the more credible witness?

    But now, we have other evidence and light is shining more and more on the truth. And that truth is the police officer abused his power and committed criminal assault in my opinion. A passenger in a car pulled over for a minor traffic stop has no obligation to talk to any officer or produce ID. The police officer violated the man's Constitutional Rights and tased the poor man 11 times for doing nothing wrong.

    Sure, the man could have complied, but do we want to live in a police state where non-compliance to unconstitutional orders gets us tased 11 times? I don't.

    The majority of our LEOs are hard working, good men and women. But there's a small percentage who have always let the power go to their heads, and fellow officers protect them as to not cross the thin blue line. This is the change that's needed.

    Abuse by police cannot be tolerated anymore. It's been going on too long, but now we have more concrete evidence. No more police hiding behind the blue line and time to arrest and convict police officers who cross it.
     
  15. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    7,304
    282
    288
    Apr 9, 2007
    An update on the story. It looks like the police officer didn't even witness whether or not the car in question used its turn signal. Making the stop illegal, because there was no cause. The police also focus almost solely on the passenger, which is unusual for a traffic stop, since they usually focus on the driver. The Governor has also asked the FBI to look into the incident.

    This is police abuse, pure and simple. Maybe it's a symptom of a larger societal problem that has reached a low point. Or maybe abuse like this has been constant for years, and now, finally, we have more visibility. I think it's the latter.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

    7,988
    865
    948
    Apr 3, 2007
    I’m tired of the “bad apple” analogy. It doesn’t capture the whole of the situation; in fact it misses the most important aspect. If all there was was a “bad apple” cop they would have fired and prosecuted him for battery. Instead they gave him less than a four-day suspension.

    No, the larger problem is police culture. There will always be bad apples but how you handle them is what’s important. Current police culture and policies encourage injustice through concealment, falsehoods, holding ranks, and propagating the “us vs them”?
     
  17. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

    7,988
    865
    948
    Apr 3, 2007
    Watching the video when he threw out the turn signal it sounded 100% like a pretense.
     
  18. homer

    homer GC Legend

    931
    268
    318
    Nov 2, 2015
    My general comments about police abuse.

    This stuff is not cut and dry. The solutions are complicated.

    I can cite one example I saw while working for a City PD as a patrolman in 1978. (Yes, I’m old, lol)

    The local population on the east side where most minorities lived, the NAACP, the local black owned newspaper, and the recognized black leader asked the mayor if he would put more black officers on patrol in their neighborhood, citing racist police incidences, some legit and others not.

    The mayor directed the police chief to do so. The police chief asked for black patrol officer volunteers to change to zones that patrolled predominately black neighborhoods. This would required changing squads and shift times.

    Guess what? No one volunteered.

    As a result the police chief decided to make the changes himself.

    A grevience citing discrimination was filed against the chief through the union.

    There were numerous reasons cited in the grievance but one in particular was front and center,,,,,

    Officers working on the east side in predominately black areas respond to many more calls per shift.

    The end result was the redeployment was stopped and status quo returned.

    When the NAACP and head representative from the black community found out about the push back and grievance they were stunned.

    Uncle Tom accusations were thrown around in some black owned media.

    Definition of UNCLE TOM