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Can control problems be fixed?

Discussion in 'Diamond Gators' started by gator34654, Jul 10, 2023.

  1. gator34654

    gator34654 GC Hall of Fame

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    Kudos that our 2 starters went in the first 2 rounds but I wonder if they would have gone much earlier had they not had issues with control. Seemed like our starters this year all had issues walking and hitting batters. Maybe other teams have the same issues, I just don 't keep up with other teams. The real question is, can this be corrected with coaching? Can our guys be coached to throw a strike when have to? Is it more during the off time that corrections are made? I'm now thinking of Cags aka wild thing, he has the arm but can his wildness be coached out of him?
    I for one can't wait for next spring, I think we have an excellent chance to get back to Omaha.
     
  2. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    You might want to talk to a good Urologist about that.
     
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  3. 74nole

    74nole GC Hall of Fame

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    Pitching coaches to a degree can be similar to hitting coaches in that each coach has his own style, his own strengths, and his own weaknesses IMHO.

    Communication is the key between a coach and his players. I’m gonna say it again—communication is the key.

    Specifically to pitching yes, I believe sound mechanics that are both easy to understand/comprehend and to perform very well upon proper execution can be put in place with any of our pitchers. It does take hard work, concentration, and the willingness to accept there are no shortcuts.

    What are proper mechanics? Let me please clarify-I am ol’school, way older than the analytics verbiage used currently.

    Proper mechanics give the pitchers the ability to perform better, stronger, and more efficiently than pitching with bad mechanics. The key to duplicating good mechanics is first understanding what you’re asking your body to do. Then proper duplication of your mechanics every pitch.

    Proper mechanics gives you the ability to pitch using what has always been called “The three C’s of pitching. Command + Control = Confidence. One breeds the next creating a completely positive mindset.

    “Throwing a baseball overhanded is the most unorthodox thing you can ask the human body to do”….Dr. James Andrews

    Proper mechanics gives the pitcher the opportunity to pitch in control of his game while putting the least amount of stress on his body (specifically his arm).

    I can break down the six taught points of mechanically pitching the ball correctly start to finish but everyone may not want to see that.

    Again, the answer is it can be done, it takes hard work and more effort/dedication to do it the right way. When the proper mechanics become your habit then self-correction is obtainable during your game because throwing “outside” of your proper mechanics will no longer feel right or good.
     
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  4. TJtheGator

    TJtheGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Please do!!!!!!!! :D

    What else are we gonna talk about during the summer?
     
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  5. TJtheGator

    TJtheGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I consider Greg Maddux to be the best “control” pitcher I’ve ever watched. If he was determined to place that ball in the upper right hand corner of the strike zone, two inches in and one inch down he very well could.

    Pop up and ground ball machine, also topping out at around 86 mph.

    If you think back to his games both with the Cubs and Braves, his body movement throughout the pitcn was pretty much the same each and every pitch. Muscle memory, repetition, second nature= sound mechanics.
     
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  6. 74nole

    74nole GC Hall of Fame

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    For an attempt at clarity’s sake I will use the language for breaking down a RHP.

    1) Rocker step-this is simply the first movement to get the machine started. With both feet on the rubber and fairly close together you step back with your left foot to start your body moving into your mechanics. It’s kinda like kicking the stand up on your bike to ride it off.

    2) Pivot-as you have lifted your left foot back then you pick your right foot up and set it back down in front of the rubber with the right side of your right foot flush along side of the rubber. This gives you the leverage you need to accelerate, drive, and follow through with your leg drive.

    3) Lift your left leg up to your balance point-realize and understand that you are loading your leg drive for maximum acceleration, drive, and follow through. It is important to understand that you lift your leg so that you can maintain balance, drive, and follow through without swinging your leg which only creates a loss of strength and power.

    4) Drive-maximum leg drive pointing your lead (left) shoulder straight down your power line driving to the plate. Your whole upper torso rotates counter clockwise as you drive towards the plate. Your glove hand (left) tucks itself along your left rib cage as your throwing arm (right) has rotated around with your leg drive, your elbow is up at a parallel level with your shoulder. Your chest is now bowed arching towards home plate.

    5) Release-most critical to accuracy the release point has to be duplicated to the same spot as much as possible. The verbiage I always heard and used was “releasing the pitch through the circle”. You create this circle by having your pitcher stand facing home plate and point his throwing hand straight at the catcher shoulder level. Now draw an imaginary circle about the size of a softball just under your hand.

    That circle is where you want to drive the pitch through and out of your hand as you see the back of your hand disappear through the circle. Constantly releasing your pitches in the correct spot creates consistency in the strike zone 60’6” later.

    6) Follow through-as the pitch comes out of your hand you continue your leg drive through release and follow through to the point where the outside of your throwing arm brushes by the outside of your landing leg. Your back will be parallel with the ground so that you have placed as much of the deceleration of your arm into your back and legs as possible.

    So many of our guys finish with their back upright which generally puts more stress on their shoulders and creates a “shotgun release point” that disallows command/control.
     
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  7. gatorstevelp

    gatorstevelp Premium Member

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    Great post. As a high school coach this was one of my hardest decisions many times……the pitchers who showed up with terrible mechanics and unorthodox deliveries who were very effective. If it was something minor and/or the kid possibly had a future in baseball then it made sense to start tweaking and watch them continually improve. Some kids you are better off leaving alone IMO as it takes a lot of work to overcome things they have done since Little League.
     
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  8. TJtheGator

    TJtheGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Learn something every day. I played a lot of 1B in my life and never thought about these things. Always too busy with balls on my side of the field, being ready for a throw from P or C if runner was stealing, and trying not to screw up too bad. My dad always insisted 1B was more diffucult for righties so I had to work harder at these simple things.

    Good stuff, Horns. The game is just full of wisdom.
     
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  9. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker GC Hall of Fame

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    Reading @74nole got me thinking about pitch speed over the years. I would think that when the mound was lowered (after 1968 season IIRC) it certainly made pitchers adjust their mechanics and maybe took a little speed off of their fastball.
     
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  10. stingbb

    stingbb Premium Member

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    74nole knows pitching and I definitely agree with him.

    It is kind of ironic how all three of the pitchers off this year’s roster each had command issues during the season.
     
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  11. 74nole

    74nole GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree with you Lurk—when the mound was lowered I believe pitchers may have lost a tick or two from their velocities. Also just as important IMHO the mound being lowered caused issues with pitchers over-striding or having too long of a stride. The higher mound created more downward slant or leverage and was employed into the downward thrust of the pitcher’s leg drive and was very established into the timing of pitcher’s release points.


    When it was lowered it created different angles for maintaining landing points as well as reaching release points “on time”.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
  12. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    So long as their home run hitting gets better too than I'm all for it. :D;)
     
  13. ocalaman

    ocalaman GC Hall of Fame

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    What about bladder control problems? Not there yet, but getting older every day!
     
  14. chiappigator

    chiappigator Freshman

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    You get what you recruit. My pet peeve for many years now under Sully is the walks and hbps. They are like loading your sidearm and aiming at your foot and pulling the trigger.
    It’s all about spin rate and velocity and live arms and jugs guns now.

    You learn to throw strikes at will when you are young. Or you don’t.
    Walks = runs. Every time. Pisses me off to no end.

    not to be that guy. But pitched through D1 at a school
    Under a coach you would know. I was throwing in the 90s back when. But I’ll be damned if I would walk anyone. Maybe 10 walks per season max. Two walks in one inning and you were yanked. Keep it up and you were gone from the rotation.

    but wow. What great spin rate and movement to admire on that ball 4.
     
  15. TheBoss

    TheBoss Premium Member

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    Wow! If you had coaches that were so much better than Sully, you must have pitched in the CWS at least a couple of times. I never realized that Sully never picked up on the obvious advantages of pitchers who were not top draft choices who made it to the majors- only about six of his guys have pitched in the majors this year. How could he have missed all of those guys like you who could "throw strikes at will."
     
  16. chiappigator

    chiappigator Freshman

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    Very nice use of left field made up strawman arguments that had nothing to do with what i said. Congrats.
     
  17. TheBoss

    TheBoss Premium Member

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    Notice the quotation marks around exactly what you said. I don't criticize your apparently excellent D1 experience, especially "10 walks per season max (quoting again). You didn't say how many innings, but I took for granted it was enough that 10 was a good number.

    Was I wrong to perceive criticism of Sully's pitching recruits who have taken Gators to the CWS at a rate of every second year? You didn't say that your teammates walked batters as infrequently as you, but if you were not a statistical outlier, why would you say that? If your coaches recruited the sort who "throw strikes at will," wouldn't that get results better than Gators this year? Oops, I didn't think about it enough to realize throwing more strikes might mean more hits and RBI. What was your ERA and opponents' BA?

    BTW I strongly agree fewer free passes is a VERY desirable thing, however, this year, it only cost us one pace in the final rankings.l
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2023
  18. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker GC Hall of Fame

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    This past season we had three very live arms as weekend starters and all at times had problems throwing strikes. I get that. We all know that. And our team wasn't really built around them for winning games. Our team was built around being a run producing machine and just getting enough from our pitchers.

    I also expect all three to be in The Show in a few years.

    Now Cade Fisher is a guy that doesn't light up the radar gun like those guys but has shown me a great deal as a pitcher. I am looking forward to seeing him pitch on the weekends next season.
     
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  19. shelbygt350

    shelbygt350 VIP Member

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    Control problem fixable?

    Ask Sandy Koufax.
     
  20. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker GC Hall of Fame

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    And Nolan Ryan.

    But not Steve Dalkowski. Google him if you don't know who he is.