Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

California State Breakup Update

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by citygator, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. WhattaGator

    WhattaGator All Along The Watchtower Moderator VIP Member

    Tully, figuring that it's California, watch them just turn one of the stars into either 3 little ones, or just make one of the stars 3 colors.
    Who knows, they cannot even break up their star into LGB :)
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Apr 19, 2007
    Geo-hell
    I think fair districting could basically take care of this issue (particularly WRT the popular vote and the House). And that's something states can adopt on their own, and are doing so. Well see what the SCOTUS does with the pending cases involving partisan gerrymandering. If they say its cool, then all bets are off.
     
  3. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

    7,030
    784
    408
    Sep 14, 2008
    I am all for independent commissions doing the redistricting, but am not sure it will change the makeup of the house all that much. The advantage will be that you will have more divided districts that will be won by more moderate candidates. If you try to create as many safe districts as you can, they tend to produce more partisan candidates. In the general election though the game will still be about getting out the vote. If the courts start mandating this, it will be interesting to see what they do about the districts that are gerrymandered to get minority candidates in office? The ones that are like a mile wide and 300 miles long.
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

    Apr 19, 2007
    Geo-hell
    Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent concentrated pops are still going to vote inefficiently in a space driven system. But pols not being able to choose their voters and more competitive districts would be a vast, vast improvement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Legend

    509
    92
    278
    Jun 14, 2014
    The north had double the population of the south, and Lincoln won the popular vote by a landslide. To the extent the situations are comparable, it's of the minority being unable to resist the will of the majority.

    I agree that a popular supermajority losing the presidency is unlikely given the current political environment -- which is why I premised my post with:

    And I also wasn't talking about just the presidency, but also Congress. Basically, the electoral college isn't a huge issue at the moment because it generally, if imperfectly, tracks close to the popular vote. But as those two factors diverge, you will see less and less satisfaction with the system, and more calls for change. That's why gerrymandering is becoming such a big issue, because we're seeing the gulf widen between vote totals and house election results. If it gets to the point that democrats have a national supermajority but still can't win the house, a constitutional crisis will be the best outcome.
     
  6. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

    7,713
    817
    433
    Aug 6, 2008
    Tampa
    Curious if they have thought of who holds the debt and who holds the resources.
     
  7. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Legend

    509
    92
    278
    Jun 14, 2014
    Incidentally, I'm not sure why people parrot the notion that secession is a "settled issue" because of a civil war that happened over 150 years ago. Quite a bit has happened in the interim. Perhaps the federal government of today attempts to force a state to stay in the union against the will of its people. Or perhaps not. Or perhaps, as Ben suggested, the Feds give a joyful "bon voyage" to the exiting state. A sample size of 1 from a time when not a soul on earth was alive gives no certainty either way.
     
  8. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

    7,030
    784
    408
    Sep 14, 2008
    You are assuming they are going to significantly diverge though. The problem is that that assumption also assumes that parties don't react to changing trends in society. The reality though is that they tend to try to incorporate issues that bring in new voters, at least to the extent that they don't alienate their base. The GOP was a much more liberal party socially in the 1960s before they found that they could incorporate religious conservatism in their platform and bring in a bunch of new voters. Hence we had a pro life test for all the candidates. The Democrats tended to favor ideologically liberal candidates in presidential elections that fared poorly, so the DNC came up with the superdelegate system to ensure that future candidates weren't too far to the left to be electable. The parties aren't married to ideology, they are married to winning and will adapt when those numbers start drifting in the wrong direction.
     
  9. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

    7,030
    784
    408
    Sep 14, 2008
    The point is that there isn't a legal process for secession. It could potentially be a negotiated departure with both the state and federal government agreeing on departure, but I would think that would be as unlikely today as it was in the 1860s. Other countries survive decades of internal strife, violence and even civil war without parting ways while we are basically talking about people being butthurt about one presidential election and affiliating with a party that's shitty at winning the state elections they need to control redistricting. If they are really that motivated as a whole to go through the process of secession, why can't they even get motivated enough to get people out to vote in critical state elections? Detroit didn't show up for Hillary and Trump won Michigan for instance. It seems more like they need to get over their apathy than start designing their own version of the stars and bars IMO.
     
  10. G. Gordon Gator

    G. Gordon Gator GC Hall of Fame

    3,765
    1,008
    478
    May 3, 2017
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  11. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

    9,009
    494
    558
    Apr 3, 2007
    Bradenton, Fl
    No, we can just make Broward - Dade part of NY.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

    5,587
    728
    563
    Apr 9, 2007
    One of the stars can just self-identify as three.
     
  13. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

    9,009
    494
    558
    Apr 3, 2007
    Bradenton, Fl
    Isn't proportional synominious with the EC? That way NY & California don't elect every Prez.
     
  14. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

    25,898
    2,156
    2,023
    Apr 3, 2007
    The EC is winner take all. It marginalizes every state that is a heavy lean towards one party, to the point that candidates only visit those states to fund raise... They don't bother campaigning.
     
  15. Gator515151

    Gator515151 GC Hall of Fame

    20,066
    354
    883
    Apr 4, 2007
    Maybe Obama wasn't so dumb after all.
     
  16. busigator96

    busigator96 Hooked since summer 1997!

    101,057
    6,187
    3,058
    Apr 10, 2007
    Gainesville, FL
    I'll move to Northern CA
     
  17. reformedgator

    reformedgator Premium Member

    1,430
    45
    128
    Aug 31, 2009
    Or make the stars white & shaped like snowflakes.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

    21,809
    1,095
    933
    Apr 8, 2007
    Gainesville, FL
    Possible reconfiguration of Florida?

    [​IMG]
     
  19. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

    2,791
    506
    423
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    Uhhh... news flash....out of state tuition mean anything to you???
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. g8orbill

    g8orbill Old Gator VIP Member

    98,702
    12,492
    3,683
    Apr 3, 2007
    Clermont, Fl
    cally is such a whacked out liberal state-not sure what they think this will accomplish